Potentially Upsetting News

Question: Why do you think Zelda isn't doing well in Japan?

Miyamoto's Answer: Well, I think a lot of people who bought the Wii are not necessarily the types of people who are interested in playing that kind of game. And a lot of the people who would want to play it [due to chronic shortages of the console] can't find a Wii! But mostly, I think it's that there are fewer and fewer people who are interested in playing a big role-playing game like Zelda.

Source

This scares me a bit. Is it possible that Nintendo will water-down the Zelda series even more to get those "non-gamers"? Discuss.

They may make spin off's but they would not dare botch up Loz. Its next to Mario and Pokemon.

Considering that they've already "watered" it down in certain aspects, I wouldn't be surprised.

At the end of the day, Nintendo are a company, and they are going to make the game in the way that it will sell the most copies. And that's probably a bad thing for us non-casual gamers.

While we have a lot of non-gamers playing Wii (or quasi-gamers actually rushing to buy it), I think Japan has even more of that type buying the system. I don't know if Wii shortages are as bad out there as they are out here, but I'd think the Japanese still love the series.

I do think, however, the Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass 'Celda' style is more popular in Japan. I personally love both, but, meh.

Either way, the game is FAR too huge out here to stop making, and they won't dumb it down for the fans over there. I'd think the reason TP went with the next-gen look was that too many Americans didn't like the Celda look anyways--Nintendo knows where the money's at, and not just in their hometown.

Originally Posted by Lexxon87

While we have a lot of non-gamers playing Wii (or quasi-gamers actually rushing to buy it), I think Japan has even more of that type buying the system. I don't know if Wii shortages are as bad out there as they are out here, but I'd think the Japanese still love the series.

I do think, however, the Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass 'Celda' style is more popular in Japan. I personally love both, but, meh.

Either way, the game is FAR too huge out here to stop making, and they won't dumb it down for the fans over there. I'd think the reason TP went with the next-gen look was that too many Americans didn't like the Celda look anyways--Nintendo knows where the money's at, and not just in their hometown.

Yeah, I agree. For them to make Zelda a nongamer experience would equal another nuke to japan (in the form of fanboy flaming). I say they need to make varied difficulty levels. Plain and simple.

Wow this pretty much sucks in every possible way! Zelda and non-gamer does not go right in the same sentence.

I hope we don't see any bastardization with the Zelda games in the future.

On the contrary, I think they'd work on bringing back those hardcore gamers that somehow stopped buying Zelda games. Still, the franchise has never done that well in Japan, not to mention that's a smaller market than the US or Europe. The money is in NA, and the game was a commercial success here.

Overall, it doesn't really bother me. There's ultimately no way to know what's going to happen, they might water it down, or make it more "exclusive" for hardcore gamers

Love your siggy, KratosAurion.

That would really stink if they did that. But come on! Even old school Zelda still has a massive fan base. Wouldn't that mean something to Nintendo?

That really sucks! Why can't they just include a hard mode for good players and an easy mode for the rest of the losers? :mad:

Oh well. I suppose there'll always be a Cave of Ordeals-esque challenge in every game, even if the boss battles become easier than killing a Teketite.

Originally Posted by Grass

Oh well. I suppose there'll always be a Cave of Ordeals-esque challenge in every game, even if the boss battles become easier than killing a Teketite.

There is no way Zelda fans should setting for that! That would be retarded! Yes, let's settle for one uninspired cave with no depth, just fighting while the newbies are rewarded with the entire game.

This scares me a bit. Is it possible that Nintendo will water-down the Zelda series even more to get those "non-gamers"? Discuss.

It doesnt seem likely that the difficulty or depth of new zelda games will be decreased. The difficulty of the most recent three-dimensional Zeldas has been pretty constant, its obvious that if Nintendo was going to lower the difficulty further, it would become a slight dissapointment, even for the newbies, because without a doubt the most difficult Zelda games have always been the most epic, at least for me anyway.

The only way that Nintendo would consider 'watering down' future Zeldas is if somehow the companies frontal lobe got surgically removed. This franchise earns them money you see. I have no doubt in my mind that Nintendo will continue to deliver. Will it be breathtaking? Im unsure.

I could care less about Nntendo reaching out to more casual gamers.

If you think about it, if it's gonna attract more overall gamers to begin with, then I don't see how it's gonna be a problem money-wise. The more gamers they can attract to play the Zelda series, the more money they can make, which can then be used to make the series better.

It's not simply about abandoning the hardcore gamer. It's Nintendo's strategy to get people into playing their games again. It's their idea into rebuilding their game making plans.

Make more Zelda games attracted to casual gamers --> get more people playing the games --> make those casual gamers into more hardcore Zelda gamers --> Make more money $$$

Face it, the series has been losing quite a bit of money since MM. Not that the past games have been bad, but they're unattractive because of how Nintendo's making them. They're all based on formulas we've played over and over and over again... Even I admit it's getting DEATHLY ANNOOYYINNNGG!!!

I'm all for downgrading the series to attack more players. If it means getting a different experience altogether so that I can enjoy Zelda again, then so be it. I'm not gonna complain like what most hardcore gamers will anyway.

The question that bugs me is how it is even possible to further 'dub' the game down. The enemies are already so easy they may as well not exist and TP is as linear as Zelda ever has been, so the only way to further simplify the games would simply be to take away things to do and remove most of the puzzles.

Originally Posted by Kee Something

There is no way Zelda fans should setting for that! That would be retarded! Yes, let's settle for one uninspired cave with no depth, just fighting while the newbies are rewarded with the entire game.

I'm not saying that should be the norm, or should be accepted. I'm saying that if Nintendo simply has to make Zelda games easier, then at least we can be a little satisfied with a Cave of Ordeals-esque sort of thing.

Originally Posted by Mystic Link

I could care less about Nntendo reaching out to more casual gamers.

If you think about it, if it's gonna attract more overall gamers to begin with, then I don't see how it's gonna be a problem money-wise. The more gamers they can attract to play the Zelda series, the more money they can make, which can then be used to make the series better.

It's not simply about abandoning the hardcore gamer. It's Nintendo's strategy to get people into playing their games again. It's their idea into rebuilding their game making plans.

Make more Zelda games attracted to casual gamers --> get more people playing the games --> make those casual gamers into more hardcore Zelda gamers --> Make more money $$$

Face it, the series has been losing quite a bit of money since MM. Not that the past games have been bad, but they're unattractive because of how Nintendo's making them. They're all based on formulas we've played over and over and over again... Even I admit it's getting DEATHLY ANNOOYYINNNGG!!!

I'm all for downgrading the series to attack more players. If it means getting a different experience altogether so that I can enjoy Zelda again, then so be it. I'm not gonna complain like what most hardcore gamers will anyway.

I'll agree with you that the way Nintendo is making the games is making it a bit boring. But what does that have to do with decreasing difficulty? What's wrong with creating a very unique, very interesting and very fun game, while throwing in a bit of a challenge, too?

I'm not saying something as hard as AOL or even MM- I think OOT probably had the perfect difficulty. And then Nintendo can distinguish the Zelda series by using different patterns to challenge newbies and veterans alike, which everyone should enjoy.

Originally Posted by Grass

I'll agree with you that the way Nintendo is making the games is making it a bit boring. But what does that have to do with decreasing difficulty? What's wrong with creating a very unique, very interesting and very fun game, while throwing in a bit of a challenge, too?

I'm not saying something as hard as AOL or even MM- I think OOT probably had the perfect difficulty. And then Nintendo can distinguish the Zelda series by using different patterns to challenge newbies and veterans alike, which everyone should enjoy.

If Nintendo were ever damn hell smart enough to bother to add in a difficulty level in the Zelda series, this wouldn't be a problem. It's not strongly a matter of the Zelda games being too easy. We only consider the recent games easy because we've grown up with the series. We're so used to the puzzles and bosses they no longer pose a threat to us experienced players anymore.

The series is fun, no one here said it wasn't. But its games in recent years have been nothing but purely unoriginal rehashes of its predecessors. Changes WILL need to be made to appease to more gamers, casual or not. Once Nintendo does so, sure perhaps they can lean more towards the hardcore fans again, but continously creating hardcore games for hardcore gamers isn't gonna attract all that many more gamers. Infact, they'll probably lose more audience than anything.

Either way, in terms of a business standpoint, it's the best way for Nintendo to move onto at the moment.

I'm guessing this means we'll have more Wind Waker length Zelda games?
Whoopie.

The hostility on this board towards non-gamers (casual gamers) is nauseating.

I am one of your "loser" non-gamers, haven't touched a video game console in 10 +years but bought the Wii 'cause it look like fun. Played some games (Wii Sports, Rayman Rabbids) and indeed they were great fun. Then, I looked around for more games, many people highly recommend Zelda TP, so I bought it. I think I have been addicted to Zelda ever since, have been persuading everyone around me (yes, most of them are non-gamers) to buy the Wii and play Zelda.

Non-gamers don't get into video games at first because of advanced games like Zelda. But eventually some new gamers willing to try new things will be looking into good games, and they will take recommendations from other gamers (that is you people, the advanced gamers). Nintendo would have to make a good game to appeal to reviewers and their target audience to begin with, and I think they have an idea what their Zelda target audience would like. So no, I don't think they will dumb down or drastically change Zelda. They have other franchises to appeal directly to new gamers: Nintendog or Animal Crossing, Brain Academy etc.

Originally Posted by MTdynamics

The hostility on this board towards non-gamers (casual gamers) is nauseating.

Look at things from our angle. We've been with Nintendo the whole time, and now Nintendo is taking the franchises that we love, and dumbing them down for non-gamers. Nintendo used to provide gamers with hardcore games that presented challenge, but with the progression of consoles, their games have been getting far too easy. Play Wind Waker, then play A Link to the Past or even Majora's Mask. Wind Waker presents no challenge, and that takes away a lot of the fun factor for veterans.

Originally Posted by Kee Something

Look at things from our angle. We've been with Nintendo the whole time, and now Nintendo is taking the franchises that we love, and dumbing them down for non-gamers. Nintendo used to provide gamers with hardcore games that presented challenge, but with the progression of consoles, their games have been getting far too easy. Play Wind Waker, then play A Link to the Past or even Majora's Mask. Wind Waker presents no challenge, and that takes away a lot of the fun factor for veterans.

I see what you are saying, and sort of understand your frustration. But, I still think it's not a bad decision for Nintendo to make the games more accessible to regular gamers. I see hardcore gamers as people who are willing to devote lots of time to overcome hard parts of a game, which I can respect. But still, regular people like myself give up much more easily. If many people have to give up on a game 20% through, it would be rather difficult for them to say good things and spread good word about this game, no?

Not trying to guess at your sentiment, but probably veterans are upset that the makers of your favorite game are catering towards ("lowering standards" in your view I guess) the needs of less-worthy fans. I say the way Nintendo is trying to do things is just to let more people enjoy their games (and thus making more money), and they might or might not be succeeding at that with the Zelda franchise, I don't know.

For the next Zelda games, they probably should make two or more modes of difficulty thought. And it would make sense to up the difficulty of the last few temples.

Originally Posted by MTdynamics

And it would make sense to up the difficulty of the last few temples.

Try the whole game. For most of us who have played a few Zeldas, TP was really just a walk in the park.

Like has been said, add in 2+ difficulty levels, (I say 10, with 1 at TP level).