If something should change in the series

Well I've heard on other borads taht some people think the LOZ Formula has gotten old. and so they think there are things that should be changed. I for one am fine with it altough I'm not completely opposed to change as it has worked for other games ( Final Fantasy , Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid)

So my question is Should something about this series be changed? and If so What?

Enemy Difficulty, Puzzle Difficulty, Linearity, more items, new inventive ideas, more plot twists, greater legnth, and if anyone says Voice Acting, we already have a thread going so please go there instead.

This is for more new ideas in general, not just voice acting.

I would add a difficulty level, 3 different levels minimum. And figurines in ther 3D games would be nice, in 2D game was pretty cool. Many new items, not just 2 or 3 in each new game, like 6 or 7 new ones. A level system would also be awesome, as you progress, there isnt much to show how good you are, hearts and items dont do justice. Or at least an enemy count.

New Items that are actually used through out the game, not just in one level.

I would add a difficulty level, 3 different levels minimum. And figurines in ther 3D games would be nice, in 2D game was pretty cool. Many new items, not just 2 or 3 in each new game, like 6 or 7 new ones. A level system would also be awesome, as you progress, there isnt much to show how good you are, hearts and items dont do justice. Or at least an enemy count.

Zelda does have a leveling system. Hearts. And hearts show your expertise in puzzle solving, and main storyline progress. If a proper, typical leveling system existed, Zelda would become one step closer to being like any other adventure game, and that would damage the franchise.

What I really want to see is a storyline change. I want to see the triforce being challenged. It has always been the ultimate, but why? surely a foreign, just as tough power would be great for storyline. Imagine - If the power of the triforce was threatened, even waning, what would Ganondorf do? Perhaps out of his love for the land of Hyrule and the triforce, he would, momentarily at least, team up with link and Zelda to save the land he loves.

The formula needs to be changed, definately. It HAS gotten old, and has been used and abused up to this point.

Ganondorf, the Master Sword and such NEED to be put to a temporary halt. These game elements appear far too often in the series, and it always ends up the same between them.
I suggest that Nintendo turns away from tradition temporarily, atleast until an upgraded formula is built. Make a game or two in the style that MM or LA used. Away from Hyrule, away from destiny, and allow Link to live out his own personal life, saving foreign lands from danger that threatens it.

Maybe the FS can make a new legacy... I can hope

Originally Posted by Taledin

Enemy Difficulty, Puzzle Difficulty, Linearity, more items, new inventive ideas, more plot twists, greater legnth, and if anyone says Voice Acting, we already have a thread going so please go there instead.

Agreed on every point except linearity. The only thing that disapointed me about TP was the difficulty. I was really wishing for TP to be a lot harder than it was. I don't think I ever saw the game over screen once in TP. It was a very fun, very well done game. But it could have used a big boost in the diffculty. The story in Zelda games has been getting better and better, which may be because of linearity but I do not want to see Zelda turn into FF where you HAVE to go places. It would be nice if they could do story(like in TP) and full freeform exploration (like in LoZ). I don't know if both could be done perfectly. It almost seems that to get one perfect you have to sacrifice the other

A new story. Ganon is old. Vaati would be awesome in 3D hint hint, Ninty. We need a whole new power, triforce is a bit boring. Maybe an anti-tricforce from the lang of undead that makes war break out in hyrule, and its constant battling everywhere and the cities and towns coud be the temples, and you could like ally with a town and crusade against other towns. that would be awesome.

Im old school when it comes to Zelda! I hope it never changes, besides making it a hell of a lot harder.

I think that in the future, Nintendo should try and explore the other lands more. Revisiting Termania would be cool, as would seeing the Holodrum and Labrynna in 3-D. Also, fleshing out the backstory would be nice. A game set before the Master Sword and Ganon would be cool.

There needs to be a lot less linearity, but by that I don't mean stuff like doing the dungeons out of order, because I don't think that's necessay. You need to have the chance to get lost in the game.

That was virtually impossible in Twilight Princess. Every area was either a big empty circle or a straight, narrow path. I'd like to see a 3D mountain range that's as difficult and confusing to traverse as the ones in ALttP and LA. Both of TP's mountain ranges were direct paths to dungeons.

You should also be able to access and explore some environments before it is necessary to do so. Tougher enemies and other temporary obstacles would limit your initial progress. When you explore in TP, it feels like the game is artificially restricting you and always holding your hand, and you don't get much of a sense of curiosity. On the other hand, remember how immersive it was exploring the Lost Woods in OoT before going to the Deku Tree? Or venturing into Ikana before gaining the Ice Arrows? There should also be some content to interest players who go into areas like these ahead of time. There was plenty to do early on in Ikana and the Lost Woods, but in TP when you could go to Snowpeak ahead of time, there was absolutely nothing to do.

Dungeons also need to be less linear. At this point, you can basically look at your map once you get it and figure out your entire route through the dungeon. I want more dungeons like Snowhead and Great Bay. You'd go through the same rooms again and again, trying to figure out if you had missed something. You'd know there were certain areas you'd need to reach, but you'd be unsure of how to get to those places. In TP you're just going from one room to the next, one puzzle at a time. I don't remember ever having more than one key at a time. Again, this makes it feel like Nintendo is holding your hand, rather than challenging you to navigate the place on your own.

Playing through TP felt more like a process than an adventure. That needs to change.

Not a COMPLETE change. Just stop being predictable and mix up a game's storyline once in a while.

In most games (at least the 3D ones) it has similarities in story. U start out collecting three items: OoT-Jewels, TP-Fused Shadows, WW-Pearls. Then you usually try to get a certain number of other things: OoT-sages, TP-Mirror Pieces, WW-unlock master sword power. Those things lead up to getting the power to destroy Ganondorf and save Hyrule. Also in both WW and TP the MS gets stronger.

I say just mix it up a little and try to avoid this certain flow of events.

P.S.~The repetitive enemies/bosses (besides Ganondorf) get annoying also.

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

There needs to be a lot less linearity, but by that I don't mean stuff like doing the dungeons out of order, because I don't think that's necessay. You need to have the chance to get lost in the game.

That was virtually impossible in Twilight Princess. Every area was either a big empty circle or a straight, narrow path. I'd like to see a 3D mountain range that's as difficult and confusing to traverse as the ones in ALttP and LA. Both of TP's mountain ranges were direct paths to dungeons.

You should also be able to access and explore some environments before it is necessary to do so. Tougher enemies and other temporary obstacles would limit your initial progress. When you explore in TP, it feels like the game is artificially restricting you and always holding your hand, and you don't get much of a sense of curiosity. On the other hand, remember how immersive it was exploring the Lost Woods in OoT before going to the Deku Tree? Or venturing into Ikana before gaining the Ice Arrows? There should also be some content to interest players who go into areas like these ahead of time. There was plenty to do early on in Ikana and the Lost Woods, but in TP when you could go to Snowpeak ahead of time, there was absolutely nothing to do.

Dungeons also need to be less linear. At this point, you can basically look at your map once you get it and figure out your entire route through the dungeon. I want more dungeons like Snowhead and Great Bay. You'd go through the same rooms again and again, trying to figure out if you had missed something. You'd know there were certain areas you'd need to reach, but you'd be unsure of how to get to those places. In TP you're just going from one room to the next, one puzzle at a time. I don't remember ever having more than one key at a time. Again, this makes it feel like Nintendo is holding your hand, rather than challenging you to navigate the place on your own.

Playing through TP felt more like a process than an adventure. That needs to change.

Nicely put, Hylian Dan. That's what was I felt was missing in Twilgiht Princess's dungeons, I just couldn't put my finger on it until you said it. I remember getting lost in the Fire and Forest Temples and Jabu Jabu's Belly in OoT, all 4 temples in MM, and the Wind Temple in WW. I never once got lost in TP because you constantly followed a path, where, like you said, the game just held your hand the whole way through.

For the overworld, TP's overworld was sickly linear! I didn't like it at all. And damn, the Death Mountain in TP is literally nothing but a straight path. What ever happened to the style of ALttP's Death Mountain or LA's Tal Tal Heights? The same with Faron Woods! It's pathetic, what happened to the endless, non-linear woods seen in the trailer?

I do have to give TP credit for its Sacred Grove, though. It is the best version of a forest seen in the 3D Zeldas so far. I still get lost in there, and I love that feeling. Being lost in such a stunning environment makes me smile.


Other things I'd change with the series is the same old recycled forumla. OoT, WW, and TP still run on the same plot forumla as ALttP. Get 3 artifacts, dramatic event, get master sword, second quest, kill Ganon, win game. Nintendo needs to change this because it not only makes Zelda games predictable, but it leaves you with a bored feeling of "been there, done that". This has to change because TP was the straw that broke the cammels back! Nintendo tacked on the Master Sword and Ganon just to make the plot the same again. It's really getting old.

Originally Posted by Kee Something

For the overworld, TP's overworld was sickly linear! I didn't like it at all. And damn, the Death Mountain in TP is literally nothing but a straight path. What ever happened to the style of ALttP's Death Mountain or LA's Tal Tal Heights? The same with Faron Woods! It's pathetic, what happened to the endless, non-linear woods seen in the trailer?

I do have to give TP credit for its Sacred Grove, though. It is the best version of a forest seen in the 3D Zeldas so far. I still get lost in there, and I love that feeling. Being lost in such a stunning environment makes me smile.

I got lost twice in TP. The first time was when I went through Faron Woods for the first time looking for Talo. I don't use the field maps, so I had a hard time finding my way around that place at first since everything looked the same.

The other time I got lost was in the Sacred Grove. While chasing Skull Kid the second time, I decided to the wrong way for a moment. It took me about ten minutes to find Skull Kid again after that, and that was pretty exciting for me. I really liked the design of the Sacred Grove, but unfortunately it's nothing compared to OoT's Lost Woods in terms of content. I go back to the Sacred Grove to enjoy the sights and lose my way, but it feels like the woods are screaming "We've already served our purpose. Move on!"

Originally Posted by Hylian Dan

The other time I got lost was in the Sacred Grove. While chasing Skull Kid the second time, I decided to the wrong way for a moment. It took me about ten minutes to find Skull Kid again after that, and that was pretty exciting for me. I really liked the design of the Sacred Grove, but unfortunately it's nothing compared to OoT's Lost Woods in terms of content. I go back to the Sacred Grove to enjoy the sights and lose my way, but it feels like the woods are screaming "We've already served our purpose. Move on!"

True. I was disapointed that there were no dancing Deku Scrubs or Deku Scrubs in general. Also, I would have loved to "play" with Skull Kid whenever I want; I was disapointed that you never see him besides the two plotted meetings. But still, the atmosphere was strong for me; reminded me of Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and A Link to the Past at the same time!

I'm really hoping that Nintendo goes all out on Zelda Wii for the forest areas. I don't just want one forest, I want many forests spread all over Hyrule like a real world! Each forest would be different; maybe a Sacred Grove style one, a Dark World ALttP style one, and a Kokiri Forest style one (with a town in the middle of the forest). I was glad that TP actually did have two forests (Faron and Sacred Grove), but Faron Woods was a waste because it was just a linear path the would way through. TP also had two mountains: Death Mountain and Snowpeak, but Death Mountain was just a straight line of nothing!

I really hope that Nintendo goes all out for Zelda Wii! I want a realistic, yet, unbelievable, fantasy world (like Oblivion) that it ginormous, non-linear, and full of optional places to explore and things to do (sidequests/minigames). That is my #1 want in the Zelda series, #2 would have to be a new plot (TP just reused the same plot forumla as ALttP, OoT, and WW), #3 would be improving enemy AI, and last, but not least, I think Nintendo needs to work on creating emotional bonds between the players and the NPC (like they did flawlessly in Majora; voice acting can help make these bonds feel more realistic).

The enemies need work. One thing I hate that was prevalent in TP's combat is waiting around for a foe to initiate an attack. (major spoiler warning, just in case) The Aerofols are a major example. You can't do anything but stare at them until they start the attack, and they always float around staring at you for a ridiculous amount of time. It's just plain boring fighting them.

I was really looking forward to the battle with Zelda (since I heard of it by accident) but the fight was a flop. Ignoring the bland recycling of the lightning bolt battle, why does she have to wait so long between attacks? Her attacks depend on catching you off guard, but that's impossible when you standing there staring at her for five minutes, waiting for an attack to dodge. The battle would have been more fun if she'd mix things up a bit. Combine some of her attacks: have her charge at you while you're distracted by volleying the lightning. Have the triangles appear while she's performing her other attacks. Have one triangle immediately follow another.

The bosses in TP never attack relentlessly. There's always a long pause while the boss has a staring contest with you, then its attack animation will begin and you'll know to get out of the way. There is rarely any sense of desperation, because you can almost always count on the bosses to give you a minute or two to catch your breath.

Zant is a rare exception, and he was by far my favorite boss in the game. The battle was constantly changing gears, and you continuously needed to adapt to new scenarios. The swordfight at the end was extremely tense because of how relentless and unpredictable Zant's attacks were. That was one of the few instances in the game where it seemed like a foe genuinely wanted to kill me.

I would like to revisit dungeons once you find another item in another dungeon.


Example: ( Spoilers)

Say that in Arbiters grounds, halfway through you see an owl statue only moveable by the dominion Rod. You might just think ' oh theres a heart piece/orange rupee behind it' but you check your map and there are several rooms, and you check the next floor and the rooms are all only accessible from moving the owl statue. This could be a part of the story, making the game longer and improving the longetivity of the items.

They should make a 3-d koholint island and when you look up into the sky you can see a giant egg perched on the mountain.nintendo should also make loads of new enemys there too and lots of islands.