Character Development in TP (I put a lot of effort into this thread!)

I love Ganondorf in Wind Waker. His personality is really different and that is a good thing. He is very wise, much wiser than the hot-headed younger version in Ocarina. The reason I bring this up is because that is a huge transition he made from Oot to WW and that gives Nintendo a lot room for major character development for Ganondorf in TP. The fact that Nintendo wouldn't reveal Ganon's role in TP makes you wonder; will he be the main villian again? I don't think he will, in fact I'll go so far to say that I'll be terribly dissapointed if he is.

If you look at the enemies in the Twilight realm, you won't see Moblins, Redead, Stalfos, or anything else that Ganon controls which lead me to believe that there may be someone else controlling the Twilight. I'd really like to see Ganondorf as kind of an anti-hero in this game, though, leaving all the work for Link to do of coarse. I would like to think of him as Vegeta from Dragonball z (yes, I'm a girl and I used to watch that show) where he will kill anyone who gets in his way, he has his own agenda, but he doesn't want anything more powerful or evil than him to exist. This could bring up some interesting conflicts between Ganon and the twilight and would possibly give Ganondorf a sense of mystery. You would wonder at first why Ganon is against the Twilight if he himself is evil.

I would also like to see a change in Zelda's personailty since (I think) this is a new Zelda. From the concept art, we see she gets a sword and is a bit more serious than past Zeldas. Now, that official art could mean nothing. Remember that one piece of official art for Oot with Link and Shiek fighting monsters side-by-side? Well, ya, that didn't happen in the game. But I'm really hoping that Zelda is different in this game. She is a tough character (she is Shiek in Ocarina afterall), but why not evolve that idea and see her actually fight. The title of the series is "the Legeod of Zelda" so why not have the plot revolve a little more around her and make her a stronger character. Why not make her a heroine? Of corase, Link hasto be the main hero as always, and I don't want Zelda to be a side-kick, but Zelda should have a more heroic role I think.

Then there is Link and Midna. Well, I'll just start with Link. It would REALLY help to give him some text in the game, but I doubt that will happen. I would atleast like to see him grow mentally and as a warrior. His facial expressions should be amazing and pretty much tell you exactly what he is thinking. I think having him transform into the wolf is a great idea to show how he acts under very strange cercomstances (sp?). Link is a hero, but I would really like him to break-down mentally in the game. Maybe in his wolf form. I want to see him scared! I want to see Link cry! I want Link to be realistic, and for that to happen he needs to be human-like in his emotions.

Now Midna is an odd one and she has the potentional to be added to the list of crazy popular Zelda characters with Majora's Mask, Kafei & Anju, Dark Link, and Shiek. She needs to be different and unique. Her look is very cool and different, but she plays the "Navi role" so that worries me. No I'm not worried about her being annoying, I just dont want another character put in the game only to tell you were to go. I would really like her to have an emotional bond with Link. through Midna, we could learn a lot about Link.

Well, I just wanted to get those hopes and wishes out of me. Maybe the video game genie will grant me my wish!


[Edit] I am not talking about voice acting at all in this thread.

Yeah although I didn't like ganondorf's weight gain in TWW I must say I did like his character, I think In Tp the Twilight Will break the sacred realm somehow and ganondorf will re-appear..near the end of the game

I didn't like ganondorf's weight gain

I kinda like him btter chunky,haha. Guess all that time locked away all he could do was eat. About Zelda, I would like to see something more than the whole light arrow and finishing blow scene. I would even settle for something like the Alttp scene where she follows you except her fighting along your side,not through the whole game though.

It has been said (be Miyamoto i think... no, just some Inside Zelda) that many emotions have been developed to the character Midna, and thats why he liked her. I hope the TP will bring a deep and emotional character story.

But Link... I think that it has also been mentioned that there will be many emotional parts in the story. I just hope that Link translates well your feelings into the game, that´s what Link should do... since, actually, he is you, emotions included.

I know,why are t hey so scared to give him a voice. Like saying yes or no he just nods. The games I think would be much better if there was voice in it,the only person who actually spoke was Beedle.

Still... I don´t think Nintendo will put dialogue on Link, never. Voice, like yes, no, or the like, I think, that would fit. But never dialogue... again, on Link. If any other character has some voice acting, I would welcome that.

Link should simply stay without "personality", maybe you don´t feel identified with him, but if they give him a concrete personality, there will be a lot, a lot more people that will feel unidentified. He´s just the body and you are the soul. I like this, and it should stay as Zelda exists, in my opinion.

I think I´m going to see those Mangas, In Zelda Legends I think. Maybe you´re right, the SotC example sounded well, but still I don´t want Link to voice act. Now that I think about it, some important dialog may come for good for our empty shell.

I don´t know if he should have that big and defined personality, but anyways... *Launches to Zelda Legends*

I couldn't agree with you more. Part of a mature story and a mature experience is character development: realistic and deep. I want to see Zelda as a person, I want to feel with Link, not as him. I want some characters to return so that they can be expanded on and we can understand more about them.

PS Last night I dreamed that TP came out as a suprise and everyone rushed to the stores to get their copy but only the GC version was out. It was very strange and I was so sad when I woke up and thought "Oh. Like, three more months to wait. $#@&^!!!"

I've thought of TP's villains, and I've been hoping to see Ganon's old master pop up. There's no proof that he had one, but they could make up a new story.

So, Ganon's former master had been betrayed by Ganon and had now somehow been brought back from the dead to avenge his death and take over Hyrule. At the same time Ganon is also plotting to take over Hyrule, not knowing his former master is back. Perhaps Link and Ganon would temporarily work together to defeat the greater evil that is Ganon's former master.

I like the idea of a greater evil that even the usual villain has to fight. It has a lot of potential.

Regarding voices, I personally wouldn't mind to see them in a Zelda game, but I'd rather have them not to. Everytime someone suggests voice-acting in a Zelda game, it is someone that has played plenty of Japanese RPGs. I agree though, it could be interesting. As of now, I cannot imagine it as a huge improvement, the only vision I can produce of it is a numb one.

Ganondorf was good in his own way in OoT and just as good in a new way in TWW.

And a great evil seems to explain a lot. Its not refering to Ganondorf in particular. Whether or not TP does anything to TWW's legend or overwrites TWW legend, I'd still like to see Ganondorf not as the main villain.

I've lost all hype for Twilight Princess apart for about %1. It is still ingrained in me that I'm buying it and I'm going to like it.

But a greater evil sounds just too promising, even so promising that it really makes you want the game, but there is no excitement to it because we have really only seen a little bit of gameplay so far.

Think about what a greater evil could be. Go watch Trailer 1. The greater evil's army in normal Hyrule is that huge horde of moblins riding on their boars.

The army when the Twilight is around, are those creatures which resemble Midna.

It seems like Nintendo have scrapped a lot of the kiddy-looking monsters. Like bubbles and stupid things like that.

The new look of the stalfos/lizalfos/moblins/skulltulas etc, are looking so explicitly supreme. Especially the twilight monsters and those skeletal looking dogs. I'm expecting these extreme makeovers for all the good enemies like wolfos and poes.

I think in trailer 2 or 3 there was a monster which resembled Queen Gohma. Running away from one of those would be pritty scary. But swimming around with a massive-sized eel in black deep water would be worse.

Like the director guy hinted, hes been playing a lot of Resident Evil 4 and really enjoyed it. That could explain a lot. It would give a darker feel to some of those monsters like redeads.

I can really see this unpenetratable force threatening Hyrule this time. This darkness will just take a really huge role in the plot. And Ganondorf will take the power some how. It seems very goood...

Originally Posted by Ganon the King

Ganondorf was good in his own way in OoT and just as good in a new way in TWW.

And a great evil seems to explain a lot. Its not refering to Ganondorf in particular. Whether or not TP does anything to TWW's legend or overwrites TWW legend, I'd still like to see Ganondorf not as the main villain.

I've lost all hype for Twilight Princess apart for about %1. It is still ingrained in me that I'm buying it and I'm going to like it.

But a greater evil sounds just too promising, even so promising that it really makes you want the game, but there is no excitement to it because we have really only seen a little bit of gameplay so far.

Think about what a greater evil could be. Go watch Trailer 1. The greater evil's army in normal Hyrule is that huge horde of moblins riding on their boars.

The army when the Twilight is around, are those creatures which resemble Midna.

It seems like Nintendo have scrapped a lot of the kiddy-looking monsters. Like bubbles and stupid things like that.

The new look of the stalfos/lizalfos/moblins/skulltulas etc, are looking so explicitly supreme. Especially the twilight monsters and those skeletal looking dogs. I'm expecting these extreme makeovers for all the good enemies like wolfos and poes.

I think in trailer 2 or 3 there was a monster which resembled Queen Gohma. Running away from one of those would be pritty scary. But swimming around with a massive-sized eel in black deep water would be worse.

Like the director guy hinted, hes been playing a lot of Resident Evil 4 and really enjoyed it. That could explain a lot. It would give a darker feel to some of those monsters like redeads.

I can really see this unpenetratable force threatening Hyrule this time. This darkness will just take a really huge role in the plot. And Ganondorf will take the power some how. It seems very goood...

TP´s Twilight or the "evil" within quite reminds me of Metroid Prime 2 - Echoes, and not only because of the Light/Dark World. The Twilight appears like it sort of takes control of other beings, just as the Ing from MP2 possess animals that are living in the Light World.

For example take a look at the gameplay-footage from E3 2005 demo, teh forest temple, where Link fights that monkey to get his Gale Boomerang. After you defeat the monkey, some of the particles you also see when Twilight-enemies are defeated (Trailer 3) seem to leave the monkey; afterwards, he´ll help you in the boss battle.

Second example: E3 2006, demo-gameplay, fire-boss (it´s still a Balrog to me, though ) - you can see the same particles when he´s defeated, just as if the boss was no evil creature at all, but was infected by some kind of virus

So, you could imagine, that the evil within the Twilight may not be one single entity, but a virus or parasite, that comes along with the twilight´s atmosphere an infects all living beings; it is not evil at all, it´s just, well, a parasite, that wants to survive (just like the Ing)

What do you think?

I am with MadCuccoo on this. Once again, people are looking for Cloud Strife or Tidus in Twilight Princess. Go ahead and play Final Fantasy if that's what you're looking for.

In this game you're in direct control of a character. You decide what he feels. I can imagine seeing little scenes of him crying, or showing fright in his face just to add a little emotional depth... but dialogue isn't a good idea, I don't think. I honestly prefer it in games when your character isn't always talking to himself and acting in ways you don't think he should act.

I like all of your ideas aside from a talking Link, but I really doubt they'll all come to light. For some reason people are expecting this enormously intricate and epic storyline... when has Zelda ever had anything like that? It has an epic atmosphere and a great driving backstory, but it's basically always "collect a whole bunch of stuff so you can fight the boss of the game", and if it strays a little from that I doubt it will be too far. The truth is, though, I'm fine with that. I like story, sure, and it's great to have an awesome driving backstory (and we can already see that there's excellent potential for one) but I don't want it to be like most RPGs where you're sitting around watching the characters put on their little show after everytime you do anything in the game.

It's an adventure game. Sure it's fantasy, but it's an adventure game. Maybe we should embrace that fact?

First of all, nice write-up. You've obviously put alot of thought into that little article you wrote. But I don't really think that Link needs a voice, at least not at this point in the franchise and probablly never. I pretty much grew up with this game and no matter what type of voice they decided to give him, it wouldn't match for me. Sorry I have so little to add.

I remember the ocarinaoftime manga. That would have been nice, like cutscene like they did in the manga like where middo was playing tricks and making fun of link. In the game all middo really did was block you from seeing the deku tree. And i kno the manga came afterward.

Well, I have already readed the OoT Child Manga.

I really liked it, it has a good atmosphere, Link is more human, bla, bla, bla.
BUT, I tried to imagine myself playing that, and I think that controlling Link will be more like controlling someone. I don´t like that, if you want to control someone else then go play any RPG, Zelda is different.

I actually read almost all of the posts, and I´m still in the "being in the game" side, A manga is a manga, it´s like an endless cutscene in a game. Citizen is right, the mayority of the people who think Link should have dialog, and actually talk, has played many RPGs. No offense intended, really (maybe you don´t even played many). If you do something for a good time, you can get accoustomed. Like when playing the piano, I practice a song untill perfection, and when I start to memorize a new one, the old notes stick to my mind, and the I want to play that song.

The point is, being Link is part of the Zelda experience, in my opinion. You talk for him, you think for him, and enything else. That´s what I think, and now I´m sure. Maybe some little voice acting in other characters, or a little more, but no (you know the rest)...

And stop that "Nintendo brain-wash" stupidity.

Yeah!

I agree, Miss Murder, Ganondorf was a sadder, more dimensional villain in TWW, who only wanted to escape the harsh, cruel life of the Gerudo, and live in the greener fields of Hyrule.....

I liked him better like that. In other games, he's pretty much a stereotypical villain. The fact that he's a giant pig mosnter dosn't help.

I love having Link talk in the manga. He was just a likeable, fun person in the OoT manga, and the Oracle mangas (the ones I read.) I identified with him much btter as a character. And he's so cute when he's eating bread at the market, but dosn't know what money is. Or accepts "engagement" with Ruto, but dosn't know what it means.

I read your post. I didn't mean to seem like I thought you wanted specifically either of those characters, I meant it in a way that "this is Zelda, not Final Fantasy". I guess I should be more direct in my writing.

I don't care whether anyone changes their mind or not, mine hasn't. Zelda is not a roleplaying game, it doesn't have many cutscenes as it is and it shouldn't. It's a game that's meant to be played and not watched like a turn-based game. If I have to sit through a bunch of cutscenes - especially ones with Link speaking and playing the normal generic hero that he would inevitably play - I will definetly be disappointed. Like I said, one of the great parts about Zelda is it's awesome driving backstory and the atmosphere it creates, so some nice cutscenes every once in awhile is both to be expected and welcomed... but it's not a storybook game.

Nintendo is totally right about Link not needing a voice. The games have been awesomely successful without his voice, and I think adding it in would disrupt an interesting part of the game's atmosphere. I'm not trying to insult you by saying this, I'm just expressing my view on it.

Originally Posted by Citizen Insane

I am with MadCuccoo on this. Once again, people are looking for Cloud Strife or Tidus in Twilight Princess. Go ahead and play Final Fantasy if that's what you're looking for.

In this game you're in direct control of a character. You decide what he feels. I can imagine seeing little scenes of him crying, or showing fright in his face just to add a little emotional depth... but dialogue isn't a good idea, I don't think. I honestly prefer it in games when your character isn't always talking to himself and acting in ways you don't think he should act.

I like all of your ideas aside from a talking Link, but I really doubt they'll all come to light. For some reason people are expecting this enormously intricate and epic storyline... when has Zelda ever had anything like that? It has an epic atmosphere and a great driving backstory, but it's basically always "collect a whole bunch of stuff so you can fight the boss of the game", and if it strays a little from that I doubt it will be too far. The truth is, though, I'm fine with that. I like story, sure, and it's great to have an awesome driving backstory (and we can already see that there's excellent potential for one) but I don't want it to be like most RPGs where you're sitting around watching the characters put on their little show after everytime you do anything in the game.

It's an adventure game. Sure it's fantasy, but it's an adventure game. Maybe we should embrace that fact?

It could be still really goos=d without dialogue like Half-life 2 and Prime, your right about that in Half-Life 2 I never even noticed Freeman never speaking but it drags you deeper into the game, it can be a good thing, although I'd like to see some dialogue and think Zelda is definatly more fantasy than adventure...

Ganondorf should defintaly be in TTP as the main villain he sucked in Windwaker he was fat/obese and wore robes! robes! i meant WTH that's stupid he seemed much more evil in OOT more sinister and powerful with the menacing glare and laughs... you didn't know much about him and wanted to know more.. in |WW the problem was he was too easy to identify with which I found annoying... this made him seem less evil and I didn't like that...

As for Ganondorf not being in it because the creatures seen aren't under his control.....they could be he could have taken them over...anything could have happened

I think if they make Ganondorf seem more powerful adn sinister he could be the perfect villain for the game.. throw in an awesome new gerudo valley and some evil fortress in the twilight realm and Nintendo are on to a winner.... it should be like your encounters with dark samus in prime I think... each time he grows more powerful that's be cool, how about a boss battle against Ganondorf where your both mounted fighting! That'd be cool!

Finally although Nintendo can have Link with no dialogue and make it really good i think it could be much better with dialogue as for this game it will allow the world to unfold around you... so you can let Link take you on a journey...after all you control the fairy with the wii-mote ^^

I too thought Ganondorf was a great character in tWW, I liked how he looked even more that OoT, and he was really someone that I didn't hate. He was human. And if they can build on that and make him even more human in TP that would be great. And I think they probably will.

Link crying....uh...no thanks. And espically if he doesn't even talk then shouldn't all of the sudden cry.

As for Midna, I think she'll be a good character, maybe a little bossy but her and Link with definently have a bond.

By Miss Murder:
Well, in cutscenes Link should talk. I'm not saying he has to talk the whole game, but (by talk I mean TEXT diologue if I haven't made that clear enough) but in important cutscenes, he should. Example, in OoT the the scene where Saria says goodbye to Link, you would expect some kind of reaction out of Link but you get nothing. Why couldn't Link say "Goodbye Saria"? Would it really ruin the "experience"? You can't possibly say it would ruin anything because it wouldn't. You can still be Link's thinker, but so the story can role, he should talk when nessessary.

And can you stop bringing up voice acting please? I never said anything about me wanting voice acting in this thread or maybe I did . . .

...This time, I agree perfectly with you. TEXT dialogue (you never said something about voice acting... maybe it´s some Twilight Madness, but I thought you said that), not voice (with Link), and nothing that could vary much from player to player, like your example... and maybe a little more. So... I think Link´s bla, bla, bla is done. Start with Ganon or whatever.

And, thank you, the manga is fantastic. I think I wouldn´t mind reading it if you hadn´t say... something, I forgot what... but whatever *runs to the manga*.