RPG Elements

I don't post often, but when I do it is a long read. I doubt many will read all of this, but if you do, I thank you, and I think you'll appreciate my ideas.

Prior to reading this, understand that I hate RPGS, especially action RPGs such as Fable and Morrowind and Kotor. The main con of these games is that there is too much menu scrolling and the character movement/action is lame. No matter how good you are, you will get hit, and these games just tend to give me a headache. I don't want Zelda to be an RPG

But...

Have any of you played Resident Evil 4? That game is just great, and it has limited, yet extremely effective RPG elements. Unlike action RPGS the action is intense and smooth, and it plays as good as an action game. I would like to see Zelda move in this direction.

For example swords. You begin the game, and soon meet up with a blacksmith. He gives you an alternate sword. Throughout the game, you may trade in this sword, along with a large sum of rupees, for a new alternate sword. You can always keep a basic sword (which is replaced by the master sword if its there) and one alternate sword. Once you unlock an alternate sword you can trade in for it at any time. Some ideas for these alternate swords are;

Kokori Knife-Extremely fast, low damage, low range
Biggoron's Sword-Powerful, no shield, long range, slow
Gerudo Sabers-Dual wielding, no shield
Double Helix Sword-Shoots lasers, drains magic.

and so on.

Every alternate sword would feature pros and cons. Every alternate sword could have some sort of special feature as well, triggered by pressing A+B. For example, a Great Fairy Sword could have a one time use full heath recovery. Unfortunently, if this game is as easy as WW, there will be no need for special moves. I want a much harder game.

RPG elements could also work for shields.

Throughout the game, you could purchase new shields capable of blocking more types of attacks and withstanding more damage. Much like the Giant's Knife from OoT, your shield could take only a certain number of hits. Then you would have to buy a new one. While this could provide annoying, consider this:

-It is something to spend those rupees on. Face it, your often stuck with a lot of rupees in Zelda.

-It provides incentive to dodge attacks. I would propose a side roll (Side jump press A very fast), to duck under blows, the traditional backflip and side jump, and a re-worked parry system. Rather than use A, I would use the clicking function of the R-button.
Pressing R down would raise the shield, but gently pressing it down within a fraction of a second would allow you to block most incoming hits with your sword, putting you at the advantage in combat. I want this Zelda to be more action oriented, forcing you to master dodges and know when to block. Of course I also want to retain the exploration and puzzles that make the series legendary as well.

Another possible object to upgrade is the bow. You could upgrade a bow's

-firing speed
-Add a reticule
-Increase arrow capacity
-Shoot more arrows at a time

As for the arrows, you could buy cheap, less powerful arrows or more expensive power arrows. It may be farfetch'd, but homing arrows are a possiblility as well.

Keep in mind, not all of the RPG elements would happen at a store, you could earn many upgrades through some fun mini-games as well.

I want to depend a little more on shops though. I would welcome the ability to sell things. I think there should be about four towns, all with unique items. I don't think there should be replenishments out of the grass. Only rupees. You could heal at fairy fontains or buy potions. Now don't get me wrong, the developers must be smart about this. If there is a room where you need arrows or magic, they will provide it to you through treasure chests. There would be convenient healing places in dungeons. The whole point of this would be to increase the difficulty of the game, and make you prepare for dungeons.

Of course there could always be armor upgrades. You've probably noted that Link wears chainmail in this game, but he should not start with it. You could also purchase or earn faster running boots.

I could go on and on, and I want to, but I will stop here an see the reaction for now. Just imagine this, an epic masterpiece of a game with a high difficulty level, and the above RPG elements. It would be great, it would add to the game, and Zelda would instantly become extremely popular again. For all of those who read my ramble, I thank you!

hmm.. those are some good ideas I especially like the idea of getting rid of some ruppees and depending on shops more. All though I'm not too sure about trading in the Master sword for something else I'd have to say that this might be a good idea, at least for me. Although I love RPGs to death so my opinion might be bias.

I'm curious though what kind of mini game would give you an upgraded weapon?

and I hate to say it but I would love a lot more side quests, even though the main story is fun its always nice to stray off the beaten path. And when I say side quests I dont mean collect all the Poes or find all the bottles, or even the trading game to get special and nesecary items. I would like to see the villagers have their own little chores to do and they could use a hand, from catching Cucos (sp?) to huntung down a dangerous pack of wolfos.

Isn't there a thread about htis already? Oh well, wow, you both have great ideas, and that's exactly what I'd be looking for in this new Zelda game. Rupees have always been one of my nusiances just because you use them maybe twice in the game and then you're done with them forever. Boring! Bring on the items and shops. Also, new versions of weapons would be a great way to squeeze in some customization of Link. I would hate to see Link altered beyond recognition, i.e. pink tutu with a gigantic wizard staff and rock in roll boots (sorry a little extreme) but I would like to buy items that fit my style, i.e. fast quick attacker who maybe isn't all that strong but makes up for it with his agility; maybe even some more magic spells, but that might be pushing it. Anyways, move on to th RPG elements alreadyl, ZELDA!!!!

Originally Posted by Alchemist

hmm.. those are some good ideas I especially like the idea of getting rid of some ruppees and depending on shops more. All though I'm not too sure about trading in the Master sword for something else I'd have to say that this might be a good idea, at least for me. Although I love RPGs to death so my opinion might be bias.

I'm curious though what kind of mini game would give you an upgraded weapon?

and I hate to say it but I would love a lot more side quests, even though the main story is fun its always nice to stray off the beaten path. And when I say side quests I dont mean collect all the Poes or find all the bottles, or even the trading game to get special and nesecary items. I would like to see the villagers have their own little chores to do and they could use a hand, from catching Cucos (sp?) to huntung down a dangerous pack of wolfos.

I love side quests as well. Whenever I buy a new game, I play the game normal. Then, on a second play-through, I do whatever I can to get 100%. This next game should be stocked with them. I love the trading sequences. MM was great with side quests, just how everything fit so well together, and I hope this game surpasses it.

Oh, and you would never turn in the Master Sword... of course not! It would be your main sword, but you could also carry around an alternate sword.

One thing I forgot to mention. One neat thing about RPGs, is that when you equip an item, it appears on your character. Zelda does do this, but it should take it one step further; the items that you equip to X,Y, and Z should appear on Link's body. Obviously all of your items could not show up, because that would look ridiculous!

I would like to see more customization of Link, and more choice of weapons. Not just strong, stronger, strongest sword, but strong and slow, moderate and fast, etc...

And I agree with Layke, I don't want the customization to change the image of Link, but little things (equipped weapons on body, different color chain mail) would help.

I think character customization would be well recieved. OoT had some in that you could choose tunic, sword and shield in the menu. I missed that in MM and tWW, I really had hoped it would be built upon. And we really need more useful shops, how often have you actually purchased something you knew you clould get for free?

Originally Posted by Alchemist

hmm.. those are some good ideas I especially like the idea of getting rid of some ruppees and depending on shops more. All though I'm not too sure about trading in the Master sword for something else I'd have to say that this might be a good idea, at least for me. Although I love RPGs to death so my opinion might be bias.

you wont trade the Master Sword for anything. You have two swords, the master sword and another swrod with which you can trade for others. The master sword, and whatever main one comes before it, are perminate and you cannot trade them, I think that is what he said.


I also really liked how you could change your gear in OoT, i wish it would return(the gear changing system that is).

Oh and awesome post and good idea Shiek 84!

The Wepons could have stats like this:

Master Sword: Speed: 7, Damage: 6
Goron Sword: Speed: 3, Damage : 10
Kokiri Sword: Speed: 9, Damage: 4

Originally Posted by falchloin

you wont trade the Master Sword for anything. You have two swords, the master sword and another swrod with which you can trade for others.

instead of trade it, you could UPGRADE it, like a Master Sword +1 (the +1 could be in Speed or Damage), or with add fire damage.

Of course, that would be really expensive, and you would need especial and rare items to do it and a very skillfull blacksmith.

Originally Posted by Demo

instead of trade it, you could UPGRADE it, like a Master Sword +1 (the +1 could be in Speed or Damage), or with add fire damage.

that sounds a lot like Dark Cloud which was annoying because of the constant need to upgrade your weapons to get anywhere. trading would be much better because then you would have to consider about which would be most useful on a mission or dungeon.

also I never want to see an experience points system (which upgrdes would require) in Zelda. it would feel unatural

The Wepons could have stats like this:

Master Sword: Speed: 7, Damage: 6
Goron Sword: Speed: 3, Damage : 10
Kokiri Sword: Speed: 9, Damage: 4

NOOOO!!!! That is what I would HATE to see Zelda turn into. I mean, I know when they program the game they have numbers and stuff like that, but I don't think they should show you that. Link should be care free and not have to worry about leveling up or anything. You should be able to beat the game with just your basic arsenal without ever to have leveling them up, only it would be very hard. That is why you get new items and possibly new techniques, but as far to actually make you have to level up, that would be Zelda's greatest mistake ever.

Originally Posted by Layke

NOOOO!!!! That is what I would HATE to see Zelda turn into. I mean, I know when they program the game they have numbers and stuff like that, but I don't think they should show you that. Link should be care free and not have to worry about leveling up or anything. You should be able to beat the game with just your basic arsenal without ever to have leveling them up, only it would be very hard. That is why you get new items and possibly new techniques, but as far to actually make you have to level up, that would be Zelda's greatest mistake ever.

I never said anything about leveling up, neither showing the numbers

I agree with u, if you put a leveling up systen you should be killing the series. I just said that they could add more arsenal, and be able to modify this arsenal, so the game could have more customizaton.

Ok, sorry to assume such things Demo, but I am glad we both agree the whole leveling up thing would be very bad. Catastrophic even. yeah, well anyways. I don't know if this is considered RPG, but I felt it was a good place to post it. I would like to be able to play throught the game with different characters like Ganondorf and Zelda, althoguht I would have not any clue on what this would be like. I know, I'm going to post a new thread about this. That'll do it. Later.

You are amazing. How did you come up with that? Yet... :mad: I SAY NO TO LEVELING UP!!! Zelda II did that, and it got annoying (but I appreciated that it was challenging). As for the whole sword thing you came up with, Shiek 84, that was a good idea. I'm so tired of "level 1, level 2, level 3." They had to do that with the NES because of limited technology, but now that there is such a thing as more complicated and realistic upgrade systems, they should start doing what FF or KH does with the equipment (not that Zelda is anything like FF). The spells in TAoL weren't such a bad idea. I likes shooting fire at Tekties and healing myself without having to refill a bottle (which gets annoying, but they should keep bottles). But, that's just what I think.

What if you got new vehicles too? Like, not motor bikes, put riding giant birds or dragons, or swimming in the ocean of the back of a Dolphin. I think it woud be a good way to allow Link to go underwater without having to copy the blue tunic or iron boots.

Originally Posted by Layke

What if you got new vehicles too? Like, not motor bikes, put riding giant birds or dragons, or swimming in the ocean of the back of a Dolphin. I think it woud be a good way to allow Link to go underwater without having to copy the blue tunic or iron boots.

I like your idea of "vehicles". Of course, for ground travel you have Epona. For future reference when I say Epona I mean the horse; I feel that the "carrot system" should be replaced by a sort of bar. Holding down A would accelerate Epona to tremendous speeds while the bar is still full. Throughout the game, you could gradually increase the size of this bar; in fact, the game could do it automatically depending on your progress.

Also, concerning the horse, I would like to see more realisic physics. Now I don't care about realistic physics, except that,when you run into an object at full speed (enemy or not), you should fall of and take damage. Additionally, if an enemy rams you, or even if you nudge, Epona should stumble accordingly. Nintendo has a huge opportunity with to introduce something fresh with horse combat, and a player should be penalized for handling their horse poorly. Horse turning and jumping should be made a lot less clumsy as well.

Some of you may not like this idea (considering that WW is rightfully considered one of the poorer Zeldas) but I think a ship would be a nice addition as well. I'm not talking a King of Red Lions sized ship, but a huge sailing ship. If this is indeed a sequel to WW, you could begin the game with the wind waker. It would play a miniscule role, the only song would be the Wind's Requiem. If the WW is not involved, the ship could just move, ignoring wind. Your huge ship could store all of your supplies and excess rupees, even transport your horse. If this game is as large as I hope, you would use your ship to find new landmasses large and small across a vast ocean. During the way you could fight ship battles, except epic, rather than the clumsy snore fests from WW.

Finally, I think an Owl would be more appropriate than a dragon for air travel. It could help you get across the world very fast, help you find a few otherwise unattainable secrets. You could also ascend over the clouds into an alternate "sky world" where you could fight badguys with your bow and arrows from the Owl's back. Oh, and droping bombs on enemies from above sounds nice as well! Thinking of good controls for this is difficult however.

Originally Posted by NayruAges

You are amazing. How did you come up with that? Yet... :mad: I SAY NO TO LEVELING UP!!! Zelda II did that, and it got annoying (but I appreciated that it was challenging). As for the whole sword thing you came up with, Shiek 84, that was a good idea. I'm so tired of "level 1, level 2, level 3." They had to do that with the NES because of limited technology, but now that there is such a thing as more complicated and realistic upgrade systems, they should start doing what FF or KH does with the equipment (not that Zelda is anything like FF). The spells in TAoL weren't such a bad idea. I likes shooting fire at Tekties and healing myself without having to refill a bottle (which gets annoying, but they should keep bottles). But, that's just what I think.

I like the spells idea, could be like Din's fire or Naryu's love from OoT, but with diferent spells per god. Each god could have 3 or 4 spells with different use. So in the game you will get the new spells doing some kind of sidequests.

Man I agree with this so much, I just can't handle myself. The one part of the system I don't nessicaraly think would be best is limiting yourself to a single sword other then the MS, you shoudl be able to use any weapon any time you want.

I agree that more RPG elements should be in the game, but only ones that enhance it. As with everyone else here THERE SHOULD BE NO LEVELING UP! That would be pointless, why level up when you have sides quests to earn hearts.

I want the weapons to be like that, the weapon should all be different, but there shouldn't be a 'best' one in all curcumstances. The weapons should not be 1x power, 2x, 4x, 8x ect. because that is simple and compleatly unbalenced, but they shouldn't be like in KH or FF either because all those weapons are too similer and often just make old weapons obsolete (nothing in Zelda should ever become 'obsolete').

Having spears and hammers, all different weapon with varied fighting mechanics and effects would be a great addition that would be more then worth the effort for major side quests.

Personaly I would love a system that tells you your weapon's stats.

Speed: 5

Power: 6

Weapn Type: Two Handed

ect.


I think this would be a good addition as long as the stats are not upgradable (exept for specific cases possibly), like in Dark Cloud, which would force you to use weapons you don't want to just to upgrade them. By all means yes, you should be able to beat the game with only your basic weapons without havign to worry about fighting monsters to make things more powerful (you would fight them to remove their threat and to earn rupees).

The magic system needs to be more strategic then it has been in recent games. Having spells that you need to yse strategicly are a must. Summoning, defence upgrades lasting a limited time (not room based like in AoL) basic healing,offensive spells and many more need to make your magic meter worth it.

Originally Posted by Ectomy

Man I agree with this so much, I just can't handle myself. The one part of the system I don't nessicaraly think would be best is limiting yourself to a single sword other then the MS, you shoudl be able to use any weapon any time you want.

I agree that more RPG elements should be in the game, but only ones that enhance it. As with everyone else here THERE SHOULD BE NO LEVELING UP! That would be pointless, why level up when you have sides quests to earn hearts.

I want the weapons to be like that, the weapon should all be different, but there shouldn't be a 'best' one in all curcumstances. The weapons should not be 1x power, 2x, 4x, 8x ect. because that is simple and compleatly unbalenced, but they shouldn't be like in KH or FF either because all those weapons are too similer and often just make old weapons obsolete (nothing in Zelda should ever become 'obsolete').

Having spears and hammers, all different weapon with varied fighting mechanics and effects would be a great addition that would be more then worth the effort for major side quests.

Personaly I would love a system that tells you your weapon's stats.

Speed: 5

Power: 6

Weapn Type: Two Handed

ect.


I think this would be a good addition as long as the stats are not upgradable (exept for specific cases possibly), like in Dark Cloud, which would force you to use weapons you don't want to just to upgrade them. By all means yes, you should be able to beat the game with only your basic weapons without havign to worry about fighting monsters to make things more powerful (you would fight them to remove their threat and to earn rupees).

The magic system needs to be more strategic then it has been in recent games. Having spells that you need to yse strategicly are a must. Summoning, defence upgrades lasting a limited time (not room based like in AoL) basic healing,offensive spells and many more need to make your magic meter worth it.

Personally, I feel that Zelda should stay with swords. Various types of swords, yes, but different weapons all together? Link wielding an axe or spear is extremely unappealing to me.

For a weapons "stats" I would suggest something very basic, but very effective (read "no numbers").

Power: Very Weak, Weak, Average, Strong, Very Strong
Speed: Slow, Average, Fast
Handling: 1 Hand, 2 Hands, Dual Wielding
Special Ability: List it.

For example the Master Sword would be a strong, average speed, 1 handed sword with no special (A+B) attribute.

I agree with you on the magic system to a point. As I've said before, if this game is as easy as other 3D Zeldas, there will be no need to use more advanced moves. I feel there should be parts of the game that you literally dread due to difficulty. When the time arrises you could possibly purchase a one use spell (A medallion) that could get you past that part. These spells would be incredibly expensive and would not all be available until later parts of the game. There could also be a couple permanent spells, but I do not want Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, and Farore's Wind rehashed. They would have to be new, and not overly powerful, but situationally useful, just like in OoT. I don't want the game to become a magic fest though.

This has little to do with RPG elements, but I also want to say that I hope this game has an improved swimming system. I would like it to be more like Mario 64 than any previous Zelda. I think most would agree, swimming in all of the 3D Zeldas has been rather weak. And I will be extremely disappointed if the swimming system from WW is re-used. They could also throw in "Zora Flippers" for a new item, effectively giving you tons of mobility in water.

Oh, and having replayed OoT recently, I recalled how fun fishing is. Wouldn't it be neat to acquire the fishing rod as an optional item and fish anywhere you please? Just a thought.

Sorry, it appears I have swayed off topic in my own thread. Feel free to discuss RPG elements!

Actually I thought the swimming as zora link in MM was really fun. I agree No numbers. But I loved the hammer and boomerang and other weapons like that. Also I feel if they do include being able to get more swords/tunics/sheilds they should limit it to anything less than 9

Man, why doees everyone shoot me down when I say that?

No, I wouldn't want Link stop using his sword most of the time, as the sword should be the most versitile weapon, but I don't see why he should be restricted to jsut that. I mean wouldn't it be good to be able to use a hammer on horseback or something, or at least be able to do more moves with it other then basic smashes?

An ax wouldn't be an effecttive one on one fighting weapon, but as a weapon to fight with in wars or against beasts, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use such a weapon. The fighting style woudn't change compleatly, the basic moves would be the same, but you would be able to proform specific techniques with special weapons that would be effective with that weapon (eg, hammer's shockwave). Why not use the axe to chop down certain trees (though this would be optional and you would have to discover this yourself if the weapon was optional).

And anyway, there wouldn't be any real difference between numbered attributes and descriptive, so I see no point arguing that.