Zelda's Future: Concerns About the New Gamecube Game

I'm sure a lot of you have seen the movies and photos that have graced the web in lieu of the upcoming Zelda game. It's nothing to say that the shots are the most beautiful ever seen on the Gamecube. As of these images, Hyrule has never looked more expansive and detailed. But it has never looked more dark either.

This is the first entry in the Legend of Zelda series that is slated to get a Teen rated, and it shows. What was once fantastical in Hyrule has now turned super-realistic, almost like a place you might find in untamed European countryside. The beasts shown in the movies game all look like they crawled out of the recent Lord of the Rings movies, and the game in general has seemed to have gone for a hard, medieval look. Is this necessarily a good thing?

Zelda games have traditionally put us in a mysterious world full of unique characters, magic and items at every turn. The "boy in the cave" feel, as Miyamoto himself might put it. However, now that we're seemingly excluding children from this new Zelda, there's no longer any pressure to put in some elements that made the rest of the series so mystical. Could it be that we might lose some of that childlike excitement that appeals to all ages?

When some games go for a Teen or Mature rating, they sometimes add a bunch of stuff that, when you right get down to it, really isn't so mature. Cursing, innuendo, and stories revolving around dark themes like revenge and hate instead of the more heroic values like responsibility and courage. Some of you might have come across Jak III, in which the series had almost completely forgotten about its roots in favor of something different. That's something I feel really doesn't need to happen to Zelda, which already has its own winning charm.

Moving on, the biggest potential problem seems to lie with Link himself, who now sports chain mail, a more rugged tunic, and a dark expression on his elfin face. Perhaps he is just mentally preparing himself for the upcoming trial with the legion of monsters shown in the promotional movie, but then again, might this be a new turn for Link into a gritty, brooding character? We've gotten an assortment of different Links in this long running series, but never one that has been un-heroic. Will this new world suck away at his Wisdom and Courage and turn him into just another anti-hero with a selfish attitude and a chip on his shoulder?

Perhaps this is some sort of offering to the fans who felt that Wind Waker wasn't serious enough for them. However, this move may risk going too much the other way with the franchise, off into a Hyrule so dark that it loses its charm. The Nintendo 64 games have already proven that a balance can be achieved between dark and light elements in the theme. Do we really need to split the series into two Zeldas, one light and one dark?

Zelda games have always been games that could be enjoyed by everyone, and they carry a very special feel to them that no doubt earns their critical acclaim. Even if this game is destined to become Teen, I feel we mustn't forget the elements that make Zelda so very Zelda. Anyone can make a gritty, unsavory, action-packed quest. It takes a little bit more to create a fantastic adventure with memorable characters and charm.

I have to say, that is one nice way to introduce yourself to ZU, with a big bang of a thread....however, there are threads like this one, so please don't be disappointed if this one gets locked.

-BGS

Oh, do be quiet, BGS. If a moderator feels this needs to be locked in favor of the countless other half-assed threads we have on the subject(and I certainly do NOT), then they'll do so. Replying specifically to say that, without even offering any sort of response to the post itself, is unnecessary. That's called rent-a-modding, and in many boards, it is against the rules and punishable with a strike. If anything, I'd lock all our other threads and leave this one open. It's better written and thought-out then just about anything else we throw around here. Really, as long as a Zelda thread is worth reading and doesn't descend to flaming or anything, I will NEVER lock it.


Aaanyways... back on subject, I have had the same worries, the same exact ones. I wrote some big thing on it awhile back, but I don't know where it went.

I try to convince myself that it'll be fine... after all, OoT's commercials and trailors made it seem far darker than it was. But you are right in saying that the basic characer design seems to have changed a bit, and some of Aonuma's comments in interveiws, about how they are interested in showing a more mature and adult Link... well, I am very worried. Especially with Prince of Persia: The Warrior Within showing just how far a series can fall, while trying to become more "mature".

Hi RisanF, and welcome to ZU. may i also say that that peice of writing is one of the best written ones i have read.

in response to your thoughts, i wouldnt worry too much about link and a dark theme. the movies highlighted a more dark story, but the teaser movies for all the zelda games did the same thing. it won't be dark, just more realistic. if OoT had a better graphics engine behing it, it too would have a Teen rating.

Zelda is also not about to froego its subplots and 'roots' for cursing. the teen rating will not do anything to the game, and there is a simple reason. the game was made as it always was, then the ESRB gave them a teen rating. they werent given a teen rating then made the game for it. also, the monsters are still goofy-looking, and i think you just need to have faith in the developers.

oh, take another look at the trailer. the moment when you see link pushing a block in a dungeon is more what it will be like. it may not be much, but it wont be overly dark

When some games go for a Teen or Mature rating, they sometimes add a bunch of stuff that, when you right get down to it, really isn't so mature. Cursing, innuendo, and stories revolving around dark themes like revenge and hate instead of the more heroic values like responsibility and courage. Some of you might have come across Jak III, in which the series had almost completely forgotten about its roots in favor of something different. That's something I feel really doesn't need to happen to Zelda, which already has its own winning charm.

I'm not too worried about Nintendo botching this game and making it into another "mature" gore-fest. For one thing, so far there are still the light flashes when Link attacks enemies, not flying limbs or anything.
Nintendo isn't necessarily aiming for a Teen or Mature rating for the game. They're just assuming that with the more realistic graphics it won't get the typical E rating.
I think this game will focus on maturing in the sense of transitioning from a child to an adult and the hardships in between, rather than the innuendo, cursing and themes of revenge that are often associated with the word mature in videogames. (So I don't think we have to worry about the game having Link say "**** you Ganon!" as he beheads him or whatever.)

Okay, I'll stop rambling now. And btw, great post RisanF.

The trailer shown at last year's E3 was focused on the action side of the upcoming Zelda game, mainly so it could get people's attention and show off. I agree with you in the sense that I don't want Link to become an anti-hero kind of person, and that Nintendo should not go to the other extreme in terms of dark material (as opposed to WW). However, I don't believe that the Zelda team at Nintendo would fall into these dark and revengeful styles of making games. I'm sure they know what makes Zelda Zelda, and it's not angry dialogue, or any Kill Bill style action.

RisanF a very nice post, and weclome to zu. At first I had the same feeling that you have, but, Nintendo have been making Zelda games since they were born, and they know what there doing and what we like. It may be dark and some points, but I think they will try keep it on a balanced rate. I have read a few posts on the new game from these forums, and its changed my total outlook on the game, I think its going to be a great game, and one of the best Zeldas that I have ever played.

Dont worry about anything.

good start: but i think that the game will not be as dark as it seems, here's why:

they(nintendo) wanted to show something of that nature because they knew that instantly they would have a great response and an immidiate following for the game. I don't think that i have ever seen cursing in a Nintendo game, and i don't think that will change, especially since it is useless and doesn't add anything to the game.

The chainmail was probably put there because this Link is at a much higher detail level and on a higher level of reality. And in reality you really cannot take more than one or two, maybe even three hit before your down for the count, so by adding chainmail they add a realistic way for you(Link) to be able to take a significant amount of hits before dying.

Besides the current setting in which the movie took place(Dusk) and the army the only "dark" thing i saw was that creature in the woods (im not going to describe it because that might spoil something for someone) but even that reminds me of something found in windwaker and coudn't possibly be of "dark" nature, at least not extensively.

Link, i assume, will not be of darker intent other than defending something against this hoard and utter hatred for their attack and evil intent. Which, depending of what he is defending, could be noble: noone who is just "dark" or "evil" tries to go against an army by his lonesome, only someone who, out of desparation, is trying to defend something he loves: be it a person or the land or the "people" in general if they exist. I HIGHLY doubt Link is riding off to defend himself, becuase if he really cared for his own life, he wouldn't be putting it on such a thin line.

The game will turn out fine I'm sure they have had plenty of time to work on it

Originally Posted by V99

The game will turn out fine I'm sure they have had plenty of time to work on it

Ditto. Whether the game be a dark game, or a peace-loving hippy game, im sure it will turn out fine. As V99 said, they have plenty of time.
I actually would like a dark game. It would be cool.

Originally Posted by lord-of-shadow

I try to convince myself that it'll be fine... after all, OoT's commercials and trailors made it seem far darker than it was. But you are right in saying that the basic characer design seems to have changed a bit, and some of Aonuma's comments in interveiws, about how they are interested in showing a more mature and adult Link... well, I am very worried. Especially with Prince of Persia: The Warrior Within showing just how far a series can fall, while trying to become more "mature".

I, too, had heard of Prince of Persia: Warror Within going off the end with blood and angst. Since the series was already pretty gritty, this change must probably come off likr a bit of overkill.

As for Adult, Mature Link, it may depend on what Mr. Aonuma means by "mature", If by "mature", they mean casting Link as a responsible, strong hero, (perhaps filing tax returns and carrying out the laundry ^_^) then it might work out, if a bit different from standard Zelda fare. But if by "mature", they mean having a snide Link spewing out attitude and knocking over the Bomb Shop, then I'll pass, thanks. That's two ways to interpret things.

Perhaps link will show True heroism in this title, maybe that is whats implied with the term "mature"
In OoT, sure link was a hero, but anyone could have taken 3 stones and what not. Sure Link was given the title of Hero of time, but that is only because he possesed a certain item. His crowing was in no way related to the content of his character.

Seeing that this new title features a massive Hyrule overworld to explore, I sense that aonuma and miyamoto know what they are doing. In a sense, they are going back to the roots of Zelda. I remember when there was a time when you could get lost in LoZ, going in circles for minuts and minuts. I hope this will happen in the new title. Well, except for the giant boundaries part.
Also this new title will feature the birds eye camera in dungeons which also goes back to the roots of zelda. I very much so anticipate the difficulty and uniqueness of the dungeons and etc.

Well, one thing I think is that the rating T is disregarded alot. Yes, my seven year old brother likes Zelda, but I can't give him Wind Waker for his birthday on Monday because he can't understand the plot, and he also can't use the C-stick on a GCN to save his life, let alone for the songs.

Once a kid hits double digits, I think they understand that the T rating on a game shouldn't matter so much. I, for one, know that I was watching R movies before I was technically supposed to watch PG-13, and this is not uncommon at all.

However, for those who are imprisoned by the rating system, I think that yes, the T rating for Zelda is disturbing, but realism I think was part of the plan. Every game of Zelda up until now has been low on graphic detail, to the point where you could count the number of polygons making up Link. Also, because of Nintendo games having a light, happy, giddy, kid theme, the true power of the GCN has never really been revealed in terms of graphics. I think the Zelda team wanted to prove that they could really do something here.

Now, for Link, as long as he doesn't have any dialogue of his own, is impossible to portray as, say, a tough warrior who isolated himself from the world because he had a bad trauma as a child and has to talk like a trucker and stuff to make up for it. Also, as long as he loves Zelda, he'll agree to do anything for her, such as, for example, kick Ganondorf's @$$. So I think Link will be fine.

Miyamoto is such a kid at heart, he would never let them throw in cursing or other degrading stuff like that. Or at least that's my belief.

Also, because of Nintendo games having a light, happy, giddy, kid theme, the true power of the GCN has never really been revealed in terms of graphics.

The power of the GCN's graphics have been proven by the Metroid Prime series. The graphics for this new Zelda game won't really be absolutely spectacular in terms of what's already been done on the GCN.

As for Link having no dialogue. In my opinion there are two reason why Link, for the most part, has no dialogue of any sort.

Firstly, artistically if done well you can express the character in many other ways then relying on dialogue. Movement, body language, expressions and the way people around that person act. It's more difficult, yes. But if it works and works well... well then what's the problem?

Secondly, and this is the one I like... While playing through Zelda games, I find myself thinking as Link would in the situations he's in. It's as if you're being encouraged to become Link, not just control him. There is no dialogue because once their is dialogue you are no longer Link in your mind, you're just the person controlling Link at that point...

See, I can't draw a line connecting the Link that spazzes around and gets catapulted into walls, hides from the exploding Goddess statue and then goes back up to it Wile E. Coyote style for it to send him flying, laughs off the whole cutscene where Tetra becomes Zelda with a girlish flick of the wrist and the character that does the stuff I make it do when under my control (i.e heroic beast-slaying, fighting Ganon etc.).

So I disagree.

See, I can't draw a line connecting the Link that spazzes around and gets catapulted into walls, hides from the exploding Goddess statue and then goes back up to it Wile E. Coyote style for it to send him flying, laughs off the whole cutscene where Tetra becomes Zelda with a girlish flick of the wrist and the character that does the stuff I make it do when under my control (i.e heroic beast-slaying, fighting Ganon etc.).

then again THAT Link was quite young and immature: he also grew up with his sister and no brothers.

Nintendo finally realized it: older people is where the money's at. It's about time, too. Jak was way more successful when it took the turn for a more mature theme. It's about time Nintendo finally let it happen.

Originally Posted by Terranix

See, I can't draw a line connecting the Link that spazzes around and gets catapulted into walls, hides from the exploding Goddess statue and then goes back up to it Wile E. Coyote style for it to send him flying, laughs off the whole cutscene where Tetra becomes Zelda with a girlish flick of the wrist and the character that does the stuff I make it do when under my control (i.e heroic beast-slaying, fighting Ganon etc.).

So I disagree.

Well that's Wind Waker, the style is comical and animated. If you watch anime you can see character do the most comical things to doing the most serious things in a split second. It can be done, it has been done, and a lot of people love it.