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Old 05-27-2012, 07:30 AM
kokiri_kid93 Australia kokiri_kid93 is offline
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Attention to detail

Zelda developers have always paid plenty of attention to detail, but i feel their magic touch has slowly faded over the last few installments. And no, I'm not talking about graphics or storyline. I'm talking about secrets, characters, things in the world you interact with just to name a few. I found this slightly lacking in SS for some reason. Sure, it got us to focus more on what we needed to in order to progress through the game, but I can always think of so many little details they could have added to enrich the whole experience.

It feels as though developers take plenty of shortcuts, probably due to time restrictions or technical restrictions. In Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword I can think of numerous occasions where I thought to myself 'they kinda got lazy with this part didn't they?' I'm hoping that in future Zelda games there'll be higher level of detail.

Perhaps a different animation every time he opens a chest, depending on context. For example if he's down to two hearts and he opens the chest he'll struggle to open it up.

Or maybe for instance if you planted a bomb next to various characters in the world they'd somehow take cover in a quirky animation.

Just something.

They've kinda touched on this a little - the Bokoblins stamping on Links hands as he hangs off the ledge in SS, how some characters duck for cover when you swing your sword at them in TP.

I know it's easy as the player to say 'they should've done this or added that'. But as a hugeeee Zelda fan, I'll always expect something more when playing a Zelda game, and sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get what I imagine it to be.

What are your thoughts? Can you guys think of any other little subtle details they could employ in future games?
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Last Edited by kokiri_kid93; 05-27-2012 at 07:34 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:02 AM
windwackster windwackster is a male United Kingdom windwackster is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Well if I understand your reasoning correctly then frankly I should disagree. There is actually quite a lot of atention to detail in later Zelda's. Especially Skyward Sword. Have you tried sitting on the various chairs scattered thrughout the game? You sometimes get some pretty neat conversations from some characters, even if you just sit on the chair casually, Link just dozes off randomly. and there are the various items you can use on many NPC's. You could for example blow a bomb up near them and they will flinch in shock like that one guy did in windfall's bar in Wind Waker. Or if you use the gust bellow they will try to resist getting blown away. Oh and then there are of course the gossip stones who regain their bouncy properties from Ocarina of Time again. And then there is the Lyre, I havent tried it out but apparently you can play it with the flow of the background music as a sort of rythm. I haven't tried that yet so I don't know if its true.

Is that what you meant? ^^

Always keep your expectations low with huge games like Zelda.
Last Edited by windwackster; 05-27-2012 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:27 AM
Johnny Sokko Johnny Sokko is a male United States Johnny Sokko is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Quote:
Originally Posted by windwackster View Post
I havent tried it out but apparently you can play it with the flow of the background music as a sort of rythm. I haven't tried that yet so I don't know if its true.
It's true, I've tested it out myself. If you strum to the beat of the background track, the harp will play arpeggios in harmony with the music. It sounds very pretty, especially with the Skyloft theme.

Anyways, in my replays of Skyward Sword, I found/noticed a lot of stuff I didn't the first time around, like the secret patch of kittens in Skyloft (which meow along with your harp playing), a kikwi (not the old one) that gives you a goddess plume and says "it's a secret to everybody" if you visit him at the end of the game, a hole by the Thrill Digger game that lets you get all the rupees underground without playing the game (I'll test if it lets you cheat in the actual game later) if you came back with the Mogma Mitts, and that you could get the old lady in the Knight's Academy really angry if you throw pots at her. Also, if you use the gust bellows on a moblin's belly...it jiggles.

Somebody on ZU pointed out that most Skyloftians wear some type of crest on their outfit, and that family members share the same crest. And I feel terribly stupid, but I didn't realize until the end of the game that the Mogmas were named after metals. Of course, all the Skyloftians are named after birds.

I noticed a few things in the boss fights too that I didn't the first time. In the his first phase, Ghirahim 1 will slap you if you stall too much, and in his second phase, you can reflect all his spikes for actual damage. I've managed to beat the second phase of Ghirahim 1 with nothing but my shield, making him what I believe is the first Zelda boss you can K.O. using your shield. When fighting Ghirahim 3, phase 2, you can reflect his "Skyward Strike" with your own sword Agahnim-style. If you chop all of Koloktos's arms off but keep his legs on, he'll charge at you and ram into a wall (reminds me off Monty Python's Black Knight). And you can jump on the Imprisoned 2's head from above instead of going for his toes; I think shooting his fingers with arrows decreases the chances of him shaking you off, but I'm not sure about it.
Last Edited by Johnny Sokko; 05-27-2012 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:23 PM
The Fanatic of Zelda The Fanatic of Zelda is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

I don't know if you are talking about gameplay detail, or graphics detail.

If it's the first, maybe they could add something.
If it's the second, I would say technical limitations.
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:27 PM
pj777 pj777 is a male United States pj777 is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thegargoylevine View Post
It's true, I've tested it out myself. If you strum to the beat of the background track, the harp will play arpeggios in harmony with the music. It sounds very pretty, especially with the Skyloft theme.
Actually this is only half true. You don't even need to strum to the beat of anything. Depending on the chord being used in the background music the notes being played on the harp will all be notes of said chord. You can just plain spam it and strum like you're an idiotic teenager who has no idea how to play a guitar and the notes will still change to whatever music's being played.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:15 PM
kokiri_kid93 Australia kokiri_kid93 is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

I guess there are a few things I didn't think about. But even so, I want to keep seeing them throughout the game and I want there to be plenty of them. Remember in ocarina of time when secrets actually felt like secrets? Skyward sword kinda made things obvious. Just those intricate little things that make you think 'whoa if I didn't do this I never would have found that' yknow? Maybe I should keep my expectations low, but it's hard to do lol
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:19 PM
Eriks0n Eriks0n is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Try to bomb a Goron in SS. Hilarious.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:35 AM
windwackster windwackster is a male United Kingdom windwackster is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri_kid93 View Post
I guess there are a few things I didn't think about. But even so, I want to keep seeing them throughout the game and I want there to be plenty of them. Remember in ocarina of time when secrets actually felt like secrets? Skyward sword kinda made things obvious. Just those intricate little things that make you think 'whoa if I didn't do this I never would have found that' yknow? Maybe I should keep my expectations low, but it's hard to do lol
So are you talking about the dowsing stuff? You don't have to use them even if Fi pesters you about it. But I'm pretty sure that was a one time thing, I doubt that Link will have another compass (that doesn't magically makes treasures and stuff apear on maps) that leads him straight to any secrets again. So you can rest easy.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:30 PM
1984 1984 is a male United States 1984 is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

If there's something EAD is skimping out on, attention to detail certainly isn't it.

Here's one: the prologue to Skyward Sword is painted on the walls of the Sealed Grounds.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:00 PM
Rocketstar11 Rocketstar11 is a female Rocketstar11 is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Zelda games do have a ton of detail. That said, there are are always going to be things that can be improved. I think it would be cool to have some more details when it comes to Hyrulian wildlife. There are usually cucoos and small birds and catchable insects, but not much more than that. It's not anything major and it certainly doesn't make the games bad at all, but I just think it would be cool to have some more realistic stuff like that in the future.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:27 PM
lulles lulles is a female Brazil lulles is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

I just wish some characters would have more dialogs. Some character say basically the same thing for the entire game, and that really takes away the realism of the game, and makes the character really bland (Piper in SS had only two lines, if I remember correctly). Little details like characters reacting to you exploding a bomb near them, or swinging or sword at them were included in SS, but I'd like more.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:45 PM
1984 1984 is a male United States 1984 is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

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Originally Posted by lulles View Post
(Piper in SS had only two lines, if I remember correctly).
She isn't really one of the major NPC's, unlike Orielle.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:44 AM
Topaz Mutiny Topaz Mutiny is a female United States Topaz Mutiny is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

Even so, other just-as-unimportant characters changed their dialogue as you progressed through the game, but Piper just keeps saying the same thing over and over. And never moves. I never saw her at night.

It honestly really irked me.

... I'm going to say it's gotten to a point where I'm used to a certain level of detail in Zelda games, and sort of like tolerance to drugs, need more of it to retain that sense of density.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:05 AM
MajorMajora MajorMajora is a male MajorMajora is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

In the second phase of ghirahim 3, there are 4 ways to hurt him. Hit his sword in the right way 3 times to make it fly out of his hand, then hit him in the chest., Parrying his attack with his shield than hitting him in the chest, deflecting his skyward strikes and then hitting him, or the way that only I seem to know about: Swiping at his sword when he's doing the stab attack to make it fly out of his hand.

Not to mention all the things above people mentioned, and almost every single Npc's dialouge and position changing over the course of the game.

Also, something I remember very well is what happened after you complete the quest with pipin's mom. If you go to their house the night after you do the house keeping, you see a short cutscene of pipin arguing with his mom about her wasting his hard earned money that was supposed to be used for food. Afterwords, he sees you outside and gets really flustered, and then heads back to his night job. If you talk to him later, he expresses curiosity as to who cleaned his house for money. He then, even after the dialogue ended, did an animation (I'm not sure what, perhaps a thinking position) for a few seconds before going back to normal.

Another thing is that you were actually able to get ideas about the characters from the character's rooms. For example, in link's room there is a wood crafting set and one or two wooden figurines of birds. In zelda's room, there are similar figurines, only painted, as if they were a present from link. Also, the two students who have the most books are Zelda and Link (Everyone else has about the same amount, probably for school requirements). However, while Zelda's are everywhere in her room, as if she is constantly reading, Link's look like he rarely uses them, half of them inconveniently behind other ones. Take it as you will, but I think he only claims to be a reader to impress zelda.

There is plenty more, But I don't have enough time to write them down.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:14 PM
lozjunkie lozjunkie is a male United States lozjunkie is offline
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Re: Attention to detail

After watching the gameplay video for Watchdogs, it really got me thinking about character interaction. It would be really neat if NPCs interacted with eachother more instead of being completely oblivious to one another; ex: Maybe characters could randomly start conversations with eachother and join others' conversations. People could watch street performers and notice and give rupees to them. Pretty basic examples, but you get the point. It would take some programming, sure, but if pulled off correctly, it would be really cool.
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