A Mature Zelda Title

Hmm, I definitely miss the darker themes of the series.

After playing Limbo, Silent Hill 2 and Mother 3 I can't help but feel disappointed in Zeldas recent lack of depth

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Hmm, I definitely miss the darker themes of the series.

After playing Limbo, Silent Hill 2 and Mother 3 I can't help but feel disappointed in Zeldas recent lack of depth

I am still a bit sour about SS not being a perfect mix of dark and cheerful themes that the art style seemed to convey. The art style felt like a blend of TP/WW/ and MM, and TP had some promising element, but Skyward Sword's world seemed reminiscent of WW, except WW still conveys the cheerful theme better.

SS lacks the darkness that made other Zelda games so popular. I can understand the lack of unique enemies, lack of unique bosses, and uninteresting dungeons because the gameplay was built within the last 2-3 years of production. However, the story and the NPCs lack an insane amount of depth that should be expecting in a game that has been in development for half of a decade.

It might work, but a lot of Zelda fans are younger. I enjoyed Twilight Princess--Rated T--more than the ones rated E, though. Skyward Sword, I believed, was really an upset, either way. Too childish. Too simple. There's a rock giving you answers, for Pete's sake.

I think some people think the ESRB rates how good or how bad are the games.

Worse - Best:



But seriously, I don't think we need a Mature 17+ Zelda.

Originally Posted by Jasmine's Wrath

It might work, but a lot of Zelda fans are younger. I enjoyed Twilight Princess--Rated T--more than the ones rated E, though. Skyward Sword, I believed, was really an upset, either way. Too childish. Too simple. There's a rock giving you answers, for Pete's sake.

An "optional" rock that "optionaly" gives you answers you mean. =/ It's not really the game's fault if you used the Sheikah stone in order to finish the game. And if you didn't then why even mentioning it? =/

I won't argue with the "childishness" thing because (knowing the so-called "mature" Zelda fans) it would just be a waste of time ping-pong discussion. =/

Originally Posted by windwackster

An "optional" rock that "optionaly" gives you answers you mean. =/ It's not really the game's fault if you used the Sheikah stone in order to finish the game. And if you didn't then why even mentioning it? =/

I won't argue with the "childishness" thing because (knowing the so-called "mature" Zelda fans) it would just be a waste of time ping-pong discussion. =/

Yeah, I'll admit I spoke with the Sheikah Stone a couple of times, but in the other games, when I didn't have the option to, it was up to me to figure it out. It required more thinking.

Well SS would have required more thinking without a Shiekah Stone, eh? The whole point of it being optional is for you to do the thinking on your own, unless you absolutely need help. Any hints you got from it, you asked for, so it's your "fault" that you didn't do as much thinking.

Originally Posted by Rakshael

Well SS would have required more thinking without a Shiekah Stone, eh? The whole point of it being optional is for you to do the thinking on your own, unless you absolutely need help. Any hints you got from it, you asked for, so it's your "fault" that you didn't do as much thinking.

I know it's my "fault," but I'm just saying that, when I have the option to be lazy, I'm gonna be lazy. It's just too tempting.

You can't base your argument off of your own personal choices/laziness.

Not really, no, but don't get angry with me or anything. I'm not trying to sound hostile. The game was an upset to the Zelda series in my opinion, but it was still a good, solid game. There was nothing strictly bad about it. The rock just made it more difficult for me to concentrate on figuring out the problem on my own. I'm the one at fault, not the game. I, personally, just am not a fan.

The Shiekah Stone was put well out of reach so that if you wanted to utilize it, you'd have to go far out of way and travel to one of the more remote areas of Skyloft. That should be reason enough not to use it.

Originally Posted by Thegargoylevine

The Shiekah Stone was put well out of reach so that if you wanted to utilize it, you'd have to go far out of way and travel to one of the more remote areas of Skyloft. That should be reason enough not to use it.

This. This is what has been brought up in other threads such as "How did you guys feeling about the Sheikah Stone?". The Sheikah Stone was clearly optional, and placed well out of reach. Obviously this was a test run, for Nintendo to find out whether their fans wanted hints or not.

When a guide appears who just pops up at every puzzle saying "Look over there. Maybe you can hit that switch in order to clear the path.", that's when we should be worried. Until then, relax about Skyward Sword's Sheikah Stone.

Back on topic, a 'mature Zelda title' is what you make of it. If you find emotional attachment to characters to be mature, play Zelda. If you find gore, violence and sex to be mature, play GTA. Just don't try and make Zelda something it's not.

Originally Posted by Ningan the Lone Ninja

When a guide appears who just pops up at every puzzle saying "Look over there. Maybe you can hit that switch in order to clear the path.", that's when we should be worried. Until then, relax about Skyward Sword's Sheikah Stone.

Before anybody tries to make a smart remark and say that's exactly what Fi was, that's not really true. Fi ruins very few puzzles if you don't purposefully ask her for help, and most of her forced conversations happen to be repeats of things you already heard.

I'm sure a Zelda game being rated-mature with Silent Hill:Downpour style and deep psychology could work. Here's the problem with comparing Zelda and Mario, Zelda as a whole especially the old ones tends to be more focused on the deeper parts of humanity and there tends to be much darker elements than what Mario could ever been since Mario is just came from a typical child book while Zelda has some harder elements. Zelda has already been rated M and Nintendo has already done M-rated game, if they're going to do a M-rated Zelda game, I hope they go with another company while one other company is stimulateneously developing a rated E Zelda with Nintendo as in those two games are different in certain aspects while still everything else is the same as a way to compromise between two audiences.

In other words, one audience should be able to get this exact feeling about actually being in danger with realistic enemies similar to Downpour style with a couple of blood involved and deep psychology should be also implemented and deep orchestral music too. This idea has potential, but Nintendo IMO should at least develop a E-rated version at the same rate they're doing the M version of this meaning different graphics and elements though same environment and same walkthrough meaning puzzles should be intensely focused on. Also, a m-rated zelda like I'm thinking doesn't have to be dark all the time, just throughout some parts of the quests and dungeons.



Like the one in this video, that would work well for M-rated Zelda.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Hmm, I definitely miss the darker themes of the series.

After playing Limbo, Silent Hill 2 and Mother 3 I can't help but feel disappointed in Zeldas recent lack of depth

What do darker themes have to do with depth? You just equated the two, but I'd argue they're different qualities.

Anyway, I've thought about it--a Zelda game with truly "mature" (as in geared toward adults and inappropriate for younger kids) themes. While I never expect Nintendo to go that route, it is an interesting thought. I'm thinking about elements like drug/alcohol use, blood, horror, vulgarity, and sexuality. It could be fascinating. I'm not opposed to it in principle.

However, I do think it is decidedly self-centered to expect the series to "grow-up" just because you did. In general, but particularly with Mario and Zelda, Nintendo aims to appeal to the broadest audience possible, and that does include kids.

For me, the pinnacle of "maturity" in the Zelda series were the adult Link dungeons in Ocarina of Time. And probably Majora's Mask in general. I'd be happy if Nintendo could just get the series back to that level. Dark, but not a sell-out.

Originally Posted by The Fanatic of Zelda

But seriously, I don't think we need a Mature 17+ Zelda.

We don't, but many mature games are E10+ or Teen. When people ask for a mature game, they ask for darker themes. A theme suitable for a fantastical epic rather than a children's book.

Originally Posted by Bill

What do darker themes have to do with depth? You just equated the two, but I'd argue they're different qualities.

Anyway, I've thought about it--a Zelda game with truly "mature" (as in geared toward adults and inappropriate for younger kids) themes. While I never expect Nintendo to go that route, it is an interesting thought. I'm thinking about elements like drug/alcohol use, blood, horror, vulgarity, and sexuality. It could be fascinating. I'm not opposed to it in principle.

However, I do think it is decided self-centered to expect the series to "grow-up" just because you did. In general, but particularly with Mario and Zelda, Nintendo aims to appeal to the broadest audience possible, and that does include kids.

For me, the pinnacle of "maturity" in the Zelda series were the adult Link dungeons in Ocarina of Time. And probably Majora's Mask in general. I'd be happy if Nintendo could just get the series back to that level. Dark, but not a sell-out.

I was saying how zelda had deeper, darker themes. MM especially, but also LA, OoT and TWW. Zeldas are feeling shallow now. They've lost the ability to make me emote and sincerely care for the characters.

Watch the opening chapter of mother 3 and then try to tell me dark and depth don't correlate. It's a childrens game. Yes. But that doesn't mean it can't evoke stronger, mature themes.

Plenty of children stories have strong, deep hidden meaning. And those were the games that struck me hardest as a kid.

And even though silent hill 2 is suppose to be scary, the ending was extremely sad, touching and tackled a very real scenario. The writing put most movies to shame, I was in shock by how powerful the story was.

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

I was saying how zelda had deeper, darker themes. MM especially, but also LA, OoT and TWW. Zeldas are feeling shallow now. They've lost the ability to make me emote and sincerely care for the characters.

I still see no reason to equate darkness with depth. Many players seem to believe that Wind Waker (at least from a story perspective) was relatively deep (especially Ganondorf's characterization) and that certainly wasn't a dark game. Resident Evil 4, while it had great game play and a basically enjoyable story, never struck me as exhibiting unusual depth.

Watch the opening chapter of mother 3 and then try to tell me dark and depth don't correlate. It's a childrens game. Yes. But that doesn't mean it can't evoke stronger, mature themes.

Plenty of children stories have strong, deep hidden meaning. And those were the games that struck me hardest as a kid.

Aren't you, in a way, arguing against your own point*? You're saying that these children's stories (and Mother 3) had depth. So why would Zelda need adult themes or excessive darkness (blood, vulgarity, drugs, gratuitous violence, sex--elements that would actually earn the game a mature rating) to have depth?


*To be fair, this might not be your point. I only skimmed the OP and they explicitly stated the possibility of an "M" Zelda, which doesn't just entail "darkness" (or depth) but elements that will actually earn the game an M rating (such as the ones I listed). As I said before, it would be fascinating to see how these "adult themes" would fit into the Zelda Universe, but A.) in themselves they have nothing to do with depth and B.) it's never going to happen.

[EDIT]

But what it is fun to think about the possibility? Could adult themes be incorporated in way that was tactful and befitting of the Zelda franchise?

Link is a bit like a hobbit. Would it trouble you if he or the characters around him indulged in smoking a magical plant? Or if we had alcohol bars, with characters actually getting drunk, instead of milk and pumpkin bars? We've seen imprisonment (the Gorons in OoT for example) but what about slavery?

I don't know. It would be such a radical shift in mood for the franchise. It's not that I have a problem with these elements in general, but it could be very strange to see them in the Zelda Universe.

It could be too much of a change. Over the years, if we were to shift slowly to more mature, darker games, then finally to Rated M, it might turn over better. I just think TLOZ should be for anyone who wants to play it, and it might make a lot of our younger audience of people who play Zelda have to give it up. Some parents are really strict like that, and it would really divide the people who currently play Zelda.

Your killing me here. I never said anything about drugs and alcohol. I was more thinking about the negative themes of death and dying. People cared about TWW ganondorf because his people were dying. MM was really strong because it dealt with how normal people reacted to the end of the world while also dealing with their everyday life problems.

Dark has nothing to do with stupidity. It's sad that your equating them just because of the op.

Think of kid movies like lion king and Up they had mature themes that treated their small audience like understanding adults. when Lucas's mother is found impaled in the beginning of earthbound 3 after being attacked by their pet, it took me by surprise. When his father finds out she's dead the townspeople try to calm him down and he ends up attacking them because he was so upset. He breaks down in front of his kids and gets arrested for hurting innocent people. Lucas is basically traumatized early in the game and loses his pet, his mom and twin brother within the first hour.


And that was a children's game. You wouldn't find something like that in Zelda anymore. Zelda has gotten progressively more sappy and less mature. They tend to avoid certain themes that used to be embraced.