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Old 12-30-2011, 03:22 PM
Brad Brad is a male France Brad is offline
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Betrayal and Double Agents

As of late, the Zelda series has become very predictable with its villains. They are evil just to be evil, and will stop Link and Zelda from achieving their goals, at any cost. However, what if there was a Zelda game where you gain emotions towards a certain character before they betray you for the other side? Kind of like Porky from Earthbound, or Anakin Skywalker from the Star Wars series. Also, how cool would it if we had Professer Snape-like characters in the Zelda universe?

If Nintendo ever made a game like this, I would be incredibly happy.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:36 PM
Big_Boxx Big_Boxx is a male United States Big_Boxx is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

Eh, it could work. I mean, Groose was already sort of a newer type of character for the series. Overall, I'd just like a story with a more complex cast. Not exactly something like Metal Gear Solid, but I always enjoyed how some of the boss characters actually interacted with each other throughout the story, as well as actively planning ahead to stop(or aid) Snake. Maybe something similar could work, and might give us a break from most of the bosses being huge demonic creatures with obvious weak points.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:21 PM
Boxer Briefs Boxer Briefs is a male United States Boxer Briefs is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

That's a great idea! Betrayal would add a depth and complexity of character we have yet to see in a Zelda game. So far the characters have always been pretty one-dimensional.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:02 PM
Certifiable Frivolity Certifiable Frivolity is a female Canada Certifiable Frivolity is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

That would be pretty cool. Of course, it would have to be done well and be totally unpredictable (a lot of betrayal twists these days are easy to call).
But having a Snape-like character would be cool too.

I could see it happening someday though, without a doubt.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:33 PM
magicalbatarang magicalbatarang is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

Betrayal is awesome! I mean...

I also think a Snape like character would be cool, someone who you're not even sure where their loyalty lies in the end.

I like the rich girl from TWW. I thought that was an awesome characterization.

Oh, and Porky was an ass. I mean, I could see where he was coming from with his family and lack of friends, but it didn't really come across as a betrayal.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:00 PM
GallyG GallyG is a male United States GallyG is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

In a perfect world, Earthbound and Mother 3 would be the games everyone rips off. Actually, just Mother 3. But since Porky was mentioned I felt like shoe-horning in a mention of how much I LOVE that game. Seriously, that is the best game ever. Not just my favorite game, but objectively the single best game in existence.

The traitor has always been an interesting character archetype to me. It has to be done well, though, as CF mentioned. Like, you mentioned Anakin. I'm from the generation that saw the Star Wars prequels before the originals, and even I knew that Anakin was going to turn to the dark side. All of episodes 2 and 3 felt like I was just waiting for him to turn evil already. I know it's somewhat of an unpopular opinion, but I prefer for them to not telegraph the betrayal at all until it happens, and then go back and fill in the reasons later (or never tell us and open up a new slew of threads in the theorizing forum. Whatever works).
Last Edited by GallyG; 12-30-2011 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:14 PM
Bill Bill is a male United States Bill is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

This is not a bad idea, actually. I very much consider myself a "Zelda purist," but I could see this fitting and being interesting. It could go either way: a "villain" who turns out to be on your side or (perhaps more shockingly) an ally who turns on you at a key moment.

Playing through Twilight Princess, I seriously thought Midna was going to turn on you at some point. Not only due to the darker feel in general, but because of the very prevalent theme of corruption in that game (corrupted baboon, corrupted Goron, corrupted Yeta, the ominous music that played when you collected the Fused Shadow, the ominous music that played when you collected the mirror shards, the notion of light being turned to shadow, Zant trying to get Midna to join his side, the corrupted Twili beasts, and of course that creepy cut-scene about with the Dark interlopers). Not saying a betrayal by Midna would have been better than the actual story, just that it would not have surprised me or felt out of place.

A betrayal would be a very surprising element for a Zelda game, one that I think could fit quite well.

Another idea that just came to mind for some reason is a "co-op" fight. Well, okay, the reason it came to mind is that the thought of Midna betraying Link immediately gave birth to the idea of Link and Zelda teaming up against Zant and Midna. Now that probably would be dumb, but surely there could be a more sensible possibility.

Come to think of it, probably one of the biggest shames in Ocarina of Time is that you never got to fight alongside Sheik or interact with her in the context of the game play whatsoever.

This artwork is awesome, but also a complete lie.

Thanks to IGNIS for the amazing signature! NNID = Bill1989. Let's play Mario Kart!
Last Edited by Bill; 12-30-2011 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Reply With Quote
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:48 AM
zeldafan888 zeldafan888 is a male Australia zeldafan888 is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

Yet somehow having a extre person with link that other then a character that say:
Hey, Hey, Hey, Listen, Listen
It does't feel right to me.
it suitable in a that revolves it story around a group of characters but in a game that usaully having one protagonist that does't speak like zelda then it feel weird for player.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:00 AM
Balthier Bunansa Balthier Bunansa is a female British Antarctic Territory Balthier Bunansa is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

I would like this villain type too...

There's several places it could have been done, too, to enhance story:

Sheik. Probably the best example. Gets you trust him too much, lures you to Temple of Time, reveals himself as Ganondorf, not Zelda, and grabs the ToC and the Medallions. Betrayal type.

Byrne. Could have been back and forth between Malladus and Link, providing suspicion on your part. He would have ultimately been good. Double agent type.

Midna. Would have made you suspicious about her past, Zant would have told you everything about Midna, and Ganon's a decoy while Midna confesses and attacks Link at Hyrule Castle. Betrayal type.

Ghirahim. Could have 'realized' his mistakes, secretly control Groose, and let loose the Imprisoned/Demise even faster. Betrayal type.

In the ways of double-crossing, there's a few ideas of what Nintendo could have done.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:10 AM
zeldafan888 zeldafan888 is a male Australia zeldafan888 is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

Ghirahim does realize his mistake but like a other character voice by Ryusei Nakao, he won't accept the fact that he can't win against link a character trait that he shares with frieza, he throws every thing at link but always, the reason why the hero always win is because the villain is always over-confident.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:37 AM
magicalbatarang magicalbatarang is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

So um... what about a quadruple agent?

A character who pretends to be on your side, but then reveals he's working for the bad guy, only to double cross the bad guy and reveal he was on your side all along, only to blind side you and FINALLY reveal that he's been working toward his own self-serving goals.

That sounded so much smarter in my head.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:10 AM
Nelsyv Nelsyv is a male United States Nelsyv is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

Sweet. This would add a whole new dimension to the storyline in a Zelda game.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:31 PM
Miles Miles is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

I did come up with a character that has shades of a traitor, only the character would end up being heroic. Basically, he's a sheikah named Nil who starts the game as a rival to Link for two reasons:

1. Nil is trying to earn the redemption of his people by assisting Zelda, but is or at least feels constantly outshone by our green capped protagonist. Thus, he sees Link as an obstacle in his path.

2. Nil envies the Hylians as a whole as they're the ruling race of Hyrule and the ones who kicked the Sheikah out of Hyrule. They live good lives in green fields while Nil's people freeze to death in a snowy wasteland (my hypothesis). This exacerbates his dislike for Link, who is of course Hylian. Nil does make an exception for Zelda though, as she shows understanding and may possibly be part Sheikah (my theory about why Zelda can turn into a Sheikah in OoT and possibly other games as well as her frequent connections to the shadow folk such as in TP).

Later in the game, this envy and contempt would tempt Nil to betray his allies, only for him to finally choose loyalty and duty over jealousy and vengeance. So, Nil wouldn't be a traitor per se, but I'd like to think his story at least adds some intrigue to a series normally known for one-layer characters. Whereas Link is ostensibly simple and straightforward, Nil has complex emotions and motivations. And if the current plan for the character seems flawed, he could always be retooled to create a better story.

I agree that the Zelda series could use more complexity in its stories and characters. Just don't go overboard, and certainly don't use contrived plot devices. Mostly, the stories should focus on motivations, preferably strong ones, as well as teach lessons through the character dynamics. The player as Link is able to witness these dynamics and learn and grow from them as a result.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:20 AM
Zeldablue777 Zeldablue777 is a female United States Zeldablue777 is offline
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Re: Betrayal and Double Agents

I'm all for it. Betrayal is nothing new to the series...Zant, Ganondorf, Byrne, Cole. Link has never been betrayed though. I also thought that Midna was going to turn, but she had a change of heart...bleh.

If link is a younger character again and has someone he looks up to, itd be an interesting scenario for a Young Link to fight his role model
Last Edited by Zeldablue777; 01-05-2012 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Reply With Quote

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