Dungeon length and frequency.

AoL levels can last about 3 minutes. xD The hard part is getting to the levels, but inside them is pretty much a joke. Even the bosses are pretty short. The game punishes the crap out of you though. You die...you go all the way back to point A in the middle of no where. D< Then again, I haven't reached the harder levels...the game is probably going easy on me dispite my jumbo death count. @_@

I don't like short levels though. They are rather unfulfilling.

I meant MM-short, not mini-short.

I would like to see lots of long dungeons, and a good overworld too. We are in the disk age! There is a ton of space on those shiny donut things!

I like long dungions for the challange and and if there are a lot of them that makes the game longer.

A mix would be nice. There could be some mini-dungeons that could double as caves, complete with puzzles and enemies, only in a cave environment. In the end, I would like all the caves to form one huge complex that you could use to get to unreachable places in Hyrule before you get the warps.

I want standard-length dungeons too, OoT/WW-length. I didn't find TP's dungeons to be that much longer than OoT/WW but I don't really care. As long as they take a while to finish during the first playthrough = happy Senap.

One thing I didn't like in TP was the Temple of Time dungeon. It felt really short and the whole "get the guardian to the entrance"-type quest was boring. Once I got him to the entrance and reached the final corridor, I realized how darn short the temple was. I don't want that again, I prefer more traditional dungeons where the boss room is deep inside the dungeon, not at the entrance.

You found MM's temples short? Personally, I found Great Bay to be one of the longest in the series, and the Stone Tower is certainly challenging enough to last a while. Out of the 3D games, Ocarina's always seemed to be the shortest.

I like long and many.

MM's temples beat out TP's timewise any day. I'll go ahead and say TP had short dungeons. If not, they were so mind numbingly easy that they seemed short. Two exceptions: lakebed and city in the sky, and those were way to drawn out. Not the fun kind of long.

As is, given your choices I go for a few long ones. TWW comes to mind. -Although one could say TWW dungeons weren't so long either, I disagree.

...OoT did have some quick levels didn't it. The first 3 levels didn't even have keys.

Originally Posted by Crab Helmet

You found MM's temples short? Personally, I found Great Bay to be one of the longest in the series, and the Stone Tower is certainly challenging enough to last a while. Out of the 3D games, Ocarina's always seemed to be the shortest.

I like long and many.

While Great Bay was pretty mind-numbing, I found it to be pretty short.

I havent been to stone tower yet

Well hurry up. It's a good level and stuff.

I think TP got it down pretty good. They just need to come up with some original puzzles and they would have been perfect.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

I think TP got it down pretty good. They just need to come up with some original puzzles and they would have been perfect.

Not the only thing TP needed

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

Well hurry up. It's a good level and stuff.

I have exams that end up in a week, and after that I'll put much of my effort into the holidays and the upcoming DAB contest, so I don't think I'll be abl to finish it for a while.

On the other hand, you don't know how right you are. I enjoyed the OoT Water Temple.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

I think TP got it down pretty good. They just need to come up with some originality and they would have been perfect.

Fix'd

Originally Posted by Talhoffer

Not the only thing TP needed

Yup, pretty much.

OOT was really the only Zelda game that had any particularly short dungeons. It took about the same time to complete the shortest dungeon in OOT as it takes to complete the longest dungeons in Okami (which, for the record, are crap).

MM's dungeons are one of the reasons it's my pick for the weakest 3D Zelda. Not only are they scarce in number, but any puzzle that wasn't timed or based solely on proper timing of execution was either a fetch quest or just poorly designed for the sake of having to use the respective transformation mask (ie, the entirety of Snowhead Temple). As far as length is concerned, anytime it seemed long came mainly from, as previously said, poor level design. Turning an entire level up-side down is more of a testament to shoe-horning extra length in the case of MM as opposed to being a well-thought out original idea.

WW and TP's were usually inconsistent as far as quality goes. WW's Forbidden Woods was okay to say the least. It felt like a more refined Woodfall Temple with, admittedley a largely OOT-derivative boss, and there may be days where I felt that it dragged on. TP has the most solid first three dungeons in the series, and Goron Mines is one of my favorites in the game. Snowpeak is my pick for the worst dungeon in the game, and I've stressed that enough. Wind Temple in WW, imo, had many of the same problems as MM's dungeons; only ever long because of certain aspects in the level design.

Fact is, I really won't count on there ever being a single dungeon that can actually emphasize the best aspects without making a slew of it's own problems. This shows most promintently in the Water-themed dungeons of the 3D games; they focus so heavily on adhering well enough to the theme of water and how you use it that everything else is just poorly laid out.

...My favorite dungeons have always been from Ocarina of Time. But I never liked the first 3 levels. In general, I usually don't like the first level of any Zelda...but I agree that TP had the best start.

Talhoffer, Double: Originality=New Puzzles. Let's not make this into a TP hate thread because you are in the minority and we'll just mindlessly flame each other.

I believe many shorter dungeons would be way nicer, with the occasional big ones. Say, keep the big ones for last, making them feel like a true test of skill and perseverance. Having short dungeons allows for more thematic settings and gameplay, something I believe was mastered in Super Mario Galaxy. Besides, it gets the less experienced gamers used to the dungeon crawling.

On the water Temple, I just thought it was cheap and repetitive. The main mechanic wasn't fun AT ALL, having to backtrack at all times. Whenever you play it for a second time having some idea as to what to do next, it's a breeze and you can see why the developers thought it was great. It IS a great experience with many memorable sequences hampered by the fact that it's too cryptic, which forces you to do the same thing over and over again just to realize you achieved nothing through it.

Julian: I don't like short dungeons. Maybe we could do it this way:

The first is short and more like a mini-dungeon. It's not even counted as one of the games actual dungeons it's just getting you used to the game mechanics.

The first true dungeon is about the same length as the Forest Temple in TP maybe slightly longer. Then they gradually get longer and more challenging until we get to a Hyrule Castle(TP) type dungeon where you use every single freaking item.

i have to agree, 20 something temples that are short (But not easy) would be great.

@Oni Dark Link: My single gripe with long dungeons is that they will inevitably start to drag at some point. there's only so much the team's creativity and the game's mechanic will allow. Add to that the thematic limitations of each dungeons and you'll probably find yourself with some repeating pattern here or there. I'm not saying that's bad, it's actually inherent to the media. I just find that developers tend to make more focused and tight challenges if they're shorter. Case in point, comparisons beetween Super Mario Galaxy and Sunshine. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask come to mind as well, although some stuff about Majora's Mask dungeons design didn't really strike the right chords on me, being actually one of the less memorable elements of the game, as far as my opinion's concerned.

On paper, hell yeah, I want longer dungeons with ever renewing gameplay ideas at each room. In reality, I see it would be difficult, so I prefer more concise dungeons. Besides, 5 years ago I would gladly sit through a 5-hour Zelda session. Nowadays it's tough to squeeze in half of it. Maybe if Zelda offered more "casual" elements that actually brought some sense of reward to the player outside of dungeons, as in better sidequests, then I would gladly take, say, half of the dungeons being really huge. Otherwise, as Zelda staples go, dungeons clearing is the only TRULY rewarding moment(There's little effort put into bombing a crack in a wall and getting a Heart Piece. The reward is there, but it is diminished), and I'd like this sense of greater achievement and progression being felt more frequently throughout the journey. That's where my desire for more shorter dungeons comes from. Besides the gameplay variety point made before, of course.