New Temple/Boss Pattern?

I think anyone who has played a Legend of Zelda game kinda knows the pattern that the temples follow:
~Find a few keys
~Beat Mini-Boss
~Get temple item
~Use item to beat Boss
~Hit boss 3-5 times
~Beat Boss

I personaly don't get as excited when facing a new temple or boss anymore. I was hoping that the temples and Bosses in TP would not follow this pattern but was disapointed. The first temple followed the pattern just as I feared, and from then on followed the same pattern in the rest of the temples.
In this thread I would like to discuss what you would do instead of this pattern. Should the temples stick to defeating the mini-boss and getting the temple item? Or should the item be aquired some other way? How would the bosses be defeated? Would the key to beating the boss be focused on the item aquired in that specific temple? Or would you rather have no idea witch item to use?
Anyway, lots to think about! I am eager to hear what you all think.
PS. sorry if their is a similar thread somewhere.

I'd like to see more variations on the standard dungeon formula. So the first dungeon for example would play out just as a TP one would, but then the second one would have more than one miniboss, the third one would take place outside and perhaps be a dungeon disguised as an overworld. Some dungeons could have two items, some would have none, some bosses would be about skillful use of your new item and some would be pure, raw skill and mayhem like ALTTP's later bosses, and hell, why limit bosses to dungeons? I'd like to see an Aquamentus or a Gleeok rampaging around a town/village. I'd also like to see a decoy dungeon, like in The Minish Cap, where you are led to a dungeon to collect an item, and only at the end is it revealed that it is actually in another dungeon.

But mostly, there just needs to be more meat to the adventure OUTSIDE the dungeons, like in Links Awakening, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, as opposed to in Twilight Princess or Phantom Hourglass where the overworld feels simply like a means to go from one dungeon to another.

Personally, I'd rather Nintendo scrap the dungeon system altogether and instead intefrate puzzles and bosses into the overworld.

However, if Nintendo does decide to stick with a dungeon system (and they probably will), then the current formula is fine by me.

I agree, I don't feel as compelled as I used to when traveling through the dungeons. Everything is pretty much down to a science for me. I don't think Nintendo should scrap dungeons all together, but they definitely do need to rework a few puzzles and the difficulty level. Also, the bosses need some fine tuning as well. They were disappointingly easy in Twilight Princess, same goes for the mid bosses. Like I said, they need to come up with new ideas instead of making it insanely apparent to the player on what they should do, which ends up killing the experience of figuring things out and giving them a decent challenge.

I love the idea of overworld bosses. There should be more instances where a boss has to be summoned at a certain part of Hyrule or whatever setting. To make things more challenging, let's say a boss may be summoned early in the game, but it is very hard to beat it if you lack items/hearts.
But yeah, the dungeon system needs to be refreshed or diminished somehow to introduce a more practical and more original way of progressing.

I say keep the dungeons and add new patterns. I like what they did with the Shadow and Spirit Temples in OoT where you'd have to be Young Link and Adult Link to beat them (bottom of well and Mirror Shield). There should be more dungeons where you need to do something similar involving time travel or alternate universes like ALTtP. Any ways, somethings have to stay, that would be:
Minibosses, item, and boss. They can be put in different orders, but those three things are necessary for a dungeon.

I think we need more Dungeons like Snow peak, and to a lesser degree the Goron mines. All the dungeons felt sooooooooooooooooooo much like the temples from OoT. We had the Forest Temple, the Temple of Time the Water Temple, all understandably temple like, but the Arbiter's Grounds and the City in the Sky felt too much like a temple.

And i miss Mini-dungeons. There were none in TP (unless you count the hidden village i guess)

I'd prefer something like having a mini-dungeon before the temple, and you get the item needed for the boss in the mini-dungeon. But don't make it obvious that it's the mini-dungeon, if that's possible.
Oh, and maybe more than one item to defeat the bosses that you have to find yourself.
Also, the boss should be less obvious when it comes to its weak point. Let's not have the partner telling you the weak point or any camera zooming into the point. I want to figure it out myself.

We do need more creative temples. It's pretty obvious what the first three temples are gonna be (forest, fire, water), so I think Nintendo should mix it up and come up with new ideas. How about a temple with tons of elements mixed together to make one mega temple? Forest, fire, water, electricity, ice, etc. All in one temple, using tons of different items.

I also like the idea of having bosses around the overworld. It seems like an interesting idea, and it would bring more fun to the overworld.

Yeah, Nintendo needs to mix things up.

Originally Posted by GamenerdAdvance

I'd like to see more variations on the standard dungeon formula. So the first dungeon for example would play out just as a TP one would, but then the second one would have more than one miniboss, the third one would take place outside and perhaps be a dungeon disguised as an overworld. Some dungeons could have two items, some would have none, some bosses would be about skillful use of your new item and some would be pure, raw skill and mayhem like ALTTP's later bosses, and hell, why limit bosses to dungeons? I'd like to see an Aquamentus or a Gleeok rampaging around a town/village. I'd also like to see a decoy dungeon, like in The Minish Cap, where you are led to a dungeon to collect an item, and only at the end is it revealed that it is actually in another dungeon.

But mostly, there just needs to be more meat to the adventure OUTSIDE the dungeons, like in Links Awakening, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, as opposed to in Twilight Princess or Phantom Hourglass where the overworld feels simply like a means to go from one dungeon to another.

Yep.

Originally Posted by GamenerdAdvance

I'd also like to see a decoy dungeon, like in The Minish Cap, where you are led to a dungeon to collect an item, and only at the end is it revealed that it is actually in another dungeon.

Sorry, but the Princess is in another castle...

I would love to see bosses in the overworld as a way to get access to more places on the map. Like some monster is devastating a town on the mountain pass and the only way to move on is to save the town. This way the boss is not limited to a room per say and you would have an area where if your not strong enough yet you will have to come back after finding an item to defeat it. Things of this sort of nature would be very appealing to me.

About the bosses in the overworlds. PH anyone?

I would love to have the temples vary alot more. In length, difficulty, and patterns. For Example, one temple might be very long and have more than one mini-boss, whereas one temple may almost not be a like the ice cavern in OoT. I would also like to have some items that are not required to beat the game, but would be really helpful and are aquired though some long sidequests. (like the Fire/Ice Arrow in OoT). This would create some diversity of how the temple bosses can be beaten. Some temples should not even have an item to aquire.

TP anyone? King Bulblin was an outdoor boss.

Every Zelda switches it up on the later dungeons, I'm not a fan of the strict following on dungeon patterns, by the time I played TWW and TP I could predict exactly what was going to happen. However, dungeon items are always a surprise and I always jump for joy when I know I'm close to the dungeon item...I love that feeling, unless they give you a crap item...like a lantern. :C

Originally Posted by Zeldablue777

TP anyone? King Bulblin was an outdoor boss.

Ok , I will give you that. He was an out of temple boss. but he was barely more difficult than any other enemy. Roll behind him hit him 3-5 times and your done. But I do have to Admit I enjoyed the jousting!

hmm... Like some have said before, the dungeons should be mixed up, maybe with multiple Mini-bosses, no keys altogether, maybe have it be a mini-dungeon, or a decoy. And Bosses across the overworld would be awesome, and definately make things interesting. Come to think of it, how about some kind of Boss that cannot be killed until a later on point in a game, when a certain item is found, and have it deterring obstacle until then. I dunno but basically, Nintendo should start mixin up the dungeons and bosses more.

Originally Posted by zeldafan12z

Ok , I will give you that. He was an out of temple boss. but he was barely more difficult than any other enemy. Roll behind him hit him 3-5 times and your done. But I do have to Admit I enjoyed the jousting!

He killed me in a joust once. Actually twice, the second time I didn't have any arrows to shoot him with. Not to mention he takes out 3 hearts or more everytime he hits. Which can be troublesome with a 3 heart challenge.

This is my first post on ZU, so I'll try to make it a halfway decent one.

I, too, agree that the temple flow and even layout of the temples should be adjusted.

For an example of layouts, The Sky Temple in TP, wasn't it actually termed as "City in the Sky" or something like that? It just didn't have the looks of a city at all, or even the looks of home for the Oocos. And the temple of Hyrule Castle - it just didn't look as luxurious as one would think, even if it hadn't have been under attack by Ganondorf. I know that's probably nitpicking, but what I'm saying is if the game has given a temple a certain role or purpose, then make it look like it was intended for that role.

As far as a flow, I don't really have a problem with the current system, just make it more challenging. Add some difficult puzzles that have severe consequences for messing up on them. Give more than one mini-boss, or for that matter add more than one boss. After you think you've beaten the main boss and the temple, something really messed up happens and actually you have to move forward only to face another, even tougher boss.

How about having to revisit temples. Say you finish a temple (or so you think) and later in the game you get an item, which you can use to get to a different part of the dungeon you thought you'd completed. Or have dungeons where you need n item from one to finish the other, so you're actually doing two temples at once.

Originally Posted by Matt 20 1

How about having to revisit temples. Say you finish a temple (or so you think) and later in the game you get an item, which you can use to get to a different part of the dungeon you thought you'd completed. Or have dungeons where you need n item from one to finish the other, so you're actually doing two temples at once.

As long as it doesn't become repetative like in the Ocean Tower (or whatever it was called) in PH, then I like that idea. I wouldn't expect to find a completely new inventory item/weapon on the second run through of a dungeon, however just a few extra chests, baddies, puzzles, and maybe even an extra mini-boss and piece of heart would be worth it.

Speaking of repitition, I know that ST hasn't come out yet, however I've already noticed a recuring theme when it comes to some of the boss (and mini boss) fights that they have shown in the trailers. Link fights what looks like a wingless Mothula miniboss. It throws a skull at Link, and Link sends it right back to stun it, then goes in for the kill.

In the latest trailer we see Link fighting a wingless bat boss (which I'm going to assume will have similar attack strategies to Frypolar from OoS). The bat spits fire, Link uses boomerang to aim fire and then at the bat. Bat gets ready to blow cold gusts of wind (or ice cubes, we don't know, Link attacks before we can see what actually happens) and gets hit with the flamming boomerang. Bat gets stunned and Link goes in for the attack.

The fight with the Giant Beetle, the beetle sends out larva to attack Link. Link attacks the Larva (turns it spiked), and sends it back to the beetle stunning it. Link goes in for the kill.

See the pattern thus far? It's sorta the "I am rubber you are glue" effect. Whatever the enemy throws at Link, it gets thrown back at the enemy. I truely hope we'll get more strategy for ST and future games.

-BGS