To everyone who complained about super guide...

Originally Posted by Senap

Now if Zelda Wii turned out to be incredibly open ended, like the original LoZ, then "Super Guide" would be hard to implement - but I'm guessing Zelda Wii will be (at least) as linear as OoT.

Erhm, you're aware, that Ocarina of Time is the most non-linear game in the series after TLoZ? The world is very open and you can play for example Forest, Fire and Water Temple in any order... So, Zelda Wii being as linear as OoT wouldn't be a bad thing. Twilight Princess is one of the most linear games in the series, so this would be an example, if Demo Play requires linearity. But to me linearity makes the games less interesting and challenging, so if Demo Play actually leads to higher linearity, it would destroy the game for me.

But I doubt it will be implemented in a way, where Demo Play plays the
entire game for you. It will be most likely only segments, like a puzzle in a room or a boss.

It's because OoT was item driven and TP was story driven.

Originally Posted by Senap

What's the difference, really? Both games are 3D, only the camera is locked to a side-scrolling perspective on SMBWii.

SMBWii is 2.5D that plays out like a 2D game that makes it a big difference. A better comparison to the likes of a 3D Zelda game is the upcoming Super Mario Galaxy 2 which will not have a super guide. For the 3D games of Zelda Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2, the 'big hit', I can't appreciate the idea of people spoiling themselves with a super guide on nor would the developers I'd think so why bother if there are going to be written guides. A written guide for SMBWii will not help as much as it would for Zelda because so much focus is on gameplay that the player can have a struggle with even if they know what to do, hence the super guide for that game and I can't fathom with the choice for Zelda Wii to have it.

Originally Posted by Senap

You'd think Nintendo would be able let the AI control Link in their own game and have him solve the hard puzzles or beat hard enemies... you know, similarly to how NPC characters work.

They are able to, but I'd think they won't.

Originally Posted by Senap

IMHO, it's the developers' jobs to make the game challenging - it's not my job *thinks of 3-heart quests*.

I agree, but I was saying that as to appeal both crowds (the casual and the hardcore), to make the middle difficulty level work. The hardcore can take on the more harder difficulty level reserved for '2nd quest' as I was saying before, while the casual enjoys the mild normal difficulty with a choice to whether they want to start and finish 2nd quest or not.

Everyone thinks Demo Play can be accessed right away and be used to simply watch the whole game. You're getting the wrong story. The "guide" has a lot of limitations. You have to play for certain amount of hours to use it...You have to DIE like 8 times to use it. You have to SUCK...in order to use it. This has nothing to do with us, it has to do with your grandma or 5 year old cousin who wanted to give Zelda a shot.

A CPU will take control to show you what to do, but it won't play the whole game for you. You can take the controls back whenever but you can't save afterwards. Meaning that either way he player has to fight or solve by his/herself. In that sense, it's like playing a game with a Youtube video walkthrough next to you. Or even better, it's like having an older brother next to you, someone who will steal the controller and show you how to do something correctly.

Demo Play also comes with a scene selection function...After you beat the game you can go back to any part of the game...I'd use that like crazy for the next Zelda.

It's obviously going to be used in zelda wii, don't say it isn't... I mean, remember the original patent, with the pictures? It was MADE for zelda. Nintendo isn't going to make a second quest just for "hardcore" gamers, and I think miyamoto said that there will never be difficulty levels or something.
Also,
like zeldablue said, you can't just make the cpu play through the entire game, you have to try and fail first, thus the super guide won't spoil anything. Also, who said mario galaxy 2 isn't going to use it? It very well might and miyamoto saying it'll be more difficult kind of supports this.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 being more difficult doesn't really support it. Many people who will get it had the experience from the first one so it would be made more difficult naturally. They did this with the Lost Levels being the true Super Mario Bros. 2 game.

I'm going to say Zelda Wii won't have a super guide, not on what would be a masterpiece. What's keeping anyone from failing on purpose in order to use the super guide if it comes with it? Maybe with a death count, but still. When Zelda Wii comes out and if it comes with a super guide, feel free to bash this post and I'll eat my words.

The computer player in NSMB wouldn't work for a Zelda game. The game is nonlinear, so having a computer play wouldn't work.

Personally, I think the ideal set up would be to simply have 3 difficulty levels. One would be easy, one be be on the level of OOT, TP, and pretty much every other Zelda, and one would be on the difficulty of AOL.

It should also be noted that a large part of the difficulty in Zelda comes from trying to work out what to do, whereas in Mario, all of it comes from actually doing it.

Puzzles + Superguide don't really mix.

"We can't really promise that it'll be in every game from now forward, but at the same time there are some types of gameplay that are suited to a system like this. We'll evaluate the titles on a case-by-case basis. Let's use Zelda as an example, introducing it opens up a Pandora's Box: do we solve the puzzles, do we show how to solve it in order to make them understand it, do we show the whole solution? It can be a difficult system, but we do see some value in it. "

- Miyamoto suggesting that zelda will indeed use the super guide

Originally Posted by xJonahx

"We can't really promise that it'll be in every game from now forward, but at the same time there are some types of gameplay that are suited to a system like this. We'll evaluate the titles on a case-by-case basis. Let's use Zelda as an example, introducing it opens up a Pandora's Box: do we solve the puzzles, do we show how to solve it in order to make them understand it, do we show the whole solution? It can be a difficult system, but we do see some value in it. "

- Miyamoto suggesting that Zelda will indeed use the super guide

There has never been a Zelda puzzle that a lab rat couldn't figure out. There have certainly been tedious ones, but never hard.

I really don't see how this super guide thing would make Zelda harder. From the way Nintendo has been doing things lately, they want their games to appeal to casual and hardcore gamers alike. But if they make it super hard, then even this super guide won't keep the casuals playing it. I doubt they would want to sit and watch a demo for every puzzle in the game because they can't solve them. It would just take away the appeal for the casuals.

Of course, this is just me being my pessimistic self. Maybe it will be a lot harder... that would be great for us hardcore players.

I just don't think the causuals are going to like having to feel like a piece of crap because they can't solve the hard puzzles and have to watch the super guide thing all the time.

I'm not sure if this has been posted already but here is an more in-depth interview with Miyamoto:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/103/1035760p1.html

Some of you seem to imply that Super Guide would be IMPOSSIBLEH to implement in Zelda considering that it is relatively non-linear.

If I understood the system correctly, it wouldn't allow you to set it to switch it ON at the start of the game and allow it to play through the entire game.

I imagine that it would allow you to solve certain puzzles or certain parts of the game that are challenging (this can be found out by letting focus groups test the game). It would simply help you at certain points, like when fighting enemies or when facing a puzzle... similarly to how hints are context-sensitive and pop-up only at certain rooms/locations.

Also, Miyamoto mentioned a "video" system (whatever that means, is it real video or just "cut-scene video"?) in SMBWii. Using this in Zelda would allow them to show you a pre-recorded video of how to solve the puzzle/beat the enemy and then let you do it yourself. This would be a lot easier than implementing an AI that takes over for you.

Originally Posted by TourianTourist

Zelda Wii being as linear as OoT wouldn't be a bad thing.

Did I ever claim that it would be? Also, I seriously doubt that they would design a game around the Super Guide.

Originally Posted by Erikson

SMBWii is 2.5D that plays out like a 2D game that makes it a big difference. A better comparison to the likes of a 3D Zelda game is the upcoming Super Mario Galaxy 2 which will not have a super guide.

I guess you're right. I don't have all the facts regarding SMG2 but my guess is that they have reached a point in development that doesn't allow them to go back and implement Super Guide without delaying the game - which would be catastrophic, considering that SMG came out 2 years ago!

Originally Posted by Erikson

I was saying that as to appeal both crowds (the casual and the hardcore), to make the middle difficulty level work.

I see where you're coming from and I also believe that the best approach would be to find perfect balance. Unfortunately, Nintendo simply sucks at balancing the big Zelda & Mario adventures.

I am not an 1337 playeh, some games are too hard for me. Fortunately, these games do have difficulty settings (Contra 3, MGS series, Perfect Dark, Metroid Prime Trilogy). I believe that options are the way to go but since Nintendo is stubborn as always and doesn't seem to want to introduce difficulty levels to Zelda, I think Super Guide sounds like the best solution at this point... That is, cranking up the difficulty and offer this "cheat system" to the ones who can't cope with the insane challenge.