The future of Ganon

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Dude you knew halfway through that Ganny was the big bad guy so don't say he was just thrown in randomly at the end. And what's this about no true backstory? He orchestrated the whole thing by using Zant to attack Hyrule.

His presence was unnecessary. He had no character, no introduction, nothing. All he was in TP was some madman who was revealed to be behind the wicked plot. And how did he seize opportunity? By providing power to another power-hungry person. And orchestrating a whole attack without any sort of character isn't any damn backstory. What disappointed me the most though, disregarding character, was that the fight with him was the first time you met him. Unlike in previous games, where he actually did something to create a feeling of dislike or rivalry between him and Link.

In TP, there's Link, a chosen hero by the Gods, fighting Ganon, who is behind all the mess Hyrule has been in. No personal quarrel or conflict have actually occurred between the two, with the exception of when Ganon seemed to have killed Midna by crushing her Fused Shadow in front of an dumbstruck Link. That, however, happened at the end.

In other games, he actually started something. There's something called the "inciting incident" in literature. And for the whole emnity concept between him and Link, there was always something. In WW, he kidnapped his sister, and when Link when to save her, he ordered the bird to indirectly kill him. In OOT, he reveals going after Zelda, and kicks Link's ass in the process.

My point: I would LOVE for Ganon to return in future games, but in TP he is simply thrown in.

What I can say good about him in TP is that his design is REAL BADASS if you ask me.

Ultra: Well it still gives Link a personal reason to want Ganon dead so who cares when it happened? Also given the fact that Midna was needed for the final battle it would have been stupid to kill her earlier.

I do feel Ganon is overused. As a villain, I like Ganon very much. He is fantastic. He will always be Link's greatest antagonist. The ultimate form of evil in the Zelda franchise. But that doesn't mean he has to be the only great form of evil in Zelda. He can't be the only single threat in the world of Zelda who has ambitions of greatness or wants to dominate all life.(And can actually accomplish through their own actions, not rely on previous villains to help them.)

Every game Ganon appears in, we pretty much know that once we face him in the final battle that we are just going to seal him up in some way, and he is simply going to appear again in some future generation and do the same evil deeds again and again. It has gotten somewhat tiring. If we have a different villain, then the chance of the unexpected can happen. Maybe that villain will appear again, or maybe it was a one time thing.

I'm not saying they need to permanently get rid of Ganon, or have some new form of ultimate evil that is going to replace him. I would just prefer they have Ganon in one game, have a different villain in the next game, then you can have Ganon return. Just not several games straight(meaning on the main console) where Ganon is the main antagonist or simply the master puppeteer over everybody else.

And when they do bring back Ganon, I also hope he gets more back story so they can explore his character more. Just to give him more reasons why he wants to do the things he does. They don't need to necessarily make him more sympathetic, but just give him reasons where he is not doing this just for the sake of being evil.

And regarding Boswer, I have grown somewhat tired of him, but the story of Mario is fairly simple and not the most important element of the games. So his being the main villain isn't really that much of a problem for me. With Zelda, the story is very important. It is ultimately an adventure story, and their stories try to get you pumped up to face the villain, to really get you invested in trying to overcome the odds and defeat the one who is causing all of the misfortune.

Golden: Ganon has only appeared in half of the games. It seems like his TP appearance is what sparked all this debate. If he hadn't shown up in TP or he appeared differently this probably wouldn't even be discussed.

I would like to see some backstory of Ganon. How was his childhood? What truly made him angry and crave power so much? I know he was born in a desert, but did his parents die? A G/F die? Best friend die?

Originally Posted by KingOfHeart

I would like to see some backstory of Ganon. How was his childhood? What truly made him angry and crave power so much? I know he was born in a desert, but did his parents die? A G/F die? Best friend die?

Nabooru blew him off.

Kidding aside that would be interesting to explore. Maybe even have Ganon tell Link the story and make Link feel kinda bad about having to kill him.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Golden: Ganon has only appeared in half of the games. It seems like his TP appearance is what sparked all this debate. If he hadn't shown up in TP or he appeared differently this probably wouldn't even be discussed.

You know, you bring up a good point. It wasn't until TP that people really started to complain about Ganon. As long as Nintendo handles him differently from now on, I'm sure people will start to accept him again.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Golden: Ganon has only appeared in half of the games. It seems like his TP appearance is what sparked all this debate. If he hadn't shown up in TP or he appeared differently this probably wouldn't even be discussed.

While I understand what you're saying, as far as I can remember, many of the games that he didn't make any appearance in were usually on the handheld games. And most of the Zelda games that have caused the most significant events in the franchise were usually the games that involved Ganon.

I would just like to see a powerful influential villain in the series, on a main console, who has his own unique personality, causes something drastic that could potentially alter future games in the series, and has no ties whatsoever to Ganondorf. I understand that is a very big wishlist, but it is just something I am hoping to happen. I'm not saying this needs to happen in every single iteration in the series, but if it happens in the next installment, I would be very happy.

And yes, if Ganon, had not appeared in Twilight Princess, I don't think there would be as many people behind the "new villain" movement. But when I played Wind Waker, I was somewhat disappointed that Ganon was behind that as well. I think that Wind Waker filled the glass to the top as far as I was willing to take it, and Twilight Princess just caused it to overflow, if you catch my meaning.

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Ultra: Well it still gives Link a personal reason to want Ganon dead so who cares when it happened? Also given the fact that Midna was needed for the final battle it would have been stupid to kill her earlier.

Dude, I never questioned for her to die, I don't want Midna dead, for God's sake.

And for "who cares when it happened?" A lot of people do. THINK ABOUT IT!!! When there is a final battle, of course there is going to be something that causes the main character to feel the impetus to kill the antagonist! But before that, there was NOTHING. No inciting incident. So that argument by itself is a fail.

Ultra: What about the kids being kidnapped and shadow being cast over the world? You don't think that cause Link to hate Ganon(granted he didn't know Ganon existed but once he found out he probably began to have some feelings of anger towards him).

Originally Posted by KingOfHeart

I would like to see some backstory of Ganon. How was his childhood? What truly made him angry and crave power so much? I know he was born in a desert, but did his parents die? A G/F die? Best friend die?

I guess the Gerudo wanted to have all the sex with him (being the only male in the whole tribe), and he simply didn't like women... So he set off to conquer the world and then wait paciently for a handsome young boy clad in green to come to his tower and stab him with his blade (pun intended)...

Originally Posted by Oni Dark Link

Ultra: What about the kids being kidnapped and shadow being cast over the world? You don't think that cause Link to hate Ganon(granted he didn't know Ganon existed but once he found out he probably began to have some feelings of anger towards him).

That is indifference. I was talking about something that happened directly between the two. Once again, you're including things that would make the whole Ganondorf concept in TP a COMPLETE failure if they were not included. He was still lacking that detail that actually makes him a serious antagonist in the series.

I change my mind about what I said earlier, I think Ganon just needs build up, someway to make the player want to hate him (example = RETURN OF GANON), and screen time (and make it epic as I said before it has to dramatic). Also to the tiny debate up above I think Oni Dark Link is right about TP being the only bad preformance by Ganondorf (AoL being the best ), because of reasons stated by UltraLight.

SOMETHING TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION:

Ganon's placement in the next Zelda game could be a little bit tricky because of the following situation:

It's definitely arguable, but it seems that Ganon dies on both timelines: at the end of WW (turns to stone, with a sword in his head, under a completely flooded Hyrule) and TP (don't remember the exact details of the scene, but I do remember him on his knees with the Master Sword straight through his chest).

I am a little confused at how this works, though. He was captured at the end of OoT, and his execution was supposed to be completed in TP (adult timeline, right?), but he escaped. And then he somehow escaped during the child timeline, came back to Hyrule, which was then flooded, and then faced Link at the end of WW. What I don't get is how he split into both timelines, and how he exists in his pig form in the older games (which take place before or after WW and TP?!?!). If anyone can shed some light on this situation, it would be greatly appreciated.


Whatever the case, this leaves Ganon's placement options (and thus the placement of the next game he's in) as either after OoT but before WW, on the child timeline (shows him coming back to a Hyrule with no Hero to save the land? This could only mean that Link wasn't there, or he failed......), before OoT (pre-unification of Hyrule? But he couldn't be known to be the main enemy, because the King of Hyrule trusts him in OoT), or after TP or WW (he is somehow resurrected from one, or both, of his deaths).

Please correct me if my logic here has some holes in it, because I'm not the greatest expert on Ganon's timeline/history.

Ganondorf only appeared in three games. They should introduce him into the new Zelda wii. (I mean come on a final sword battle with Ganondorf with Wii motion plus? Everyone wants that!) My only complain is flesh Ganondorf and Zelda out. It's been twenty years now and these characters are still vague. I know Nintendo probably thinks "Let the fans come up with it" BS, Eiji Aunoma clearly stated a lot of info of the characters which did not come out of the game.

Eiji Aunoma on Ganondorf "I think we did a good job of showing him also as a tragic figure who was not purely an evil villian, but a real person ruled by greed."

I always saw Ganondorf wanting to help his people out but during the process he just got more powerhunger and started losing sight of his real goal.

They should portray him like that =/

Originally Posted by funkyd90

Please correct me if my logic here has some holes in it, because I'm not the greatest expert on Ganon's timeline/history.

1. TP is on the Child Timeline, and WW is on the Adult Timeline.

2. What Crazyfreak said, Ganondorf only appeared in OoT, WW, and TP. All other Ganons are someone(s) different, LoZ and AoL Ganon are the same being, and some people believe that FSA and ALttP Ganon are the same, some people believe that FSA ganon is also LoZ Ganon. As for OoX Ganon he is either LoZ/AoL Ganon or ALttP Ganon.

ZeldaZealot hopes that this help you understand it better, but then again ZeldaZealot isn't that great at explaining things.

I always saw Ganondorf trying to help his people as BS... I mean, during WW, he tells you how the Gerudo suffered in the desert, but what did he do to change that? He conquered Hyrule, but the Gerudo still lived in the same desert in the adult portion of OoT, and the whole kingdom was turned into a hellish place... To me he seems like a spoiled child that, after being denied a toy, breaks the toy of another child out of jealousy... Still, I think he has the potential to become a really remarkable villain, with the right story...
Also, I kind of don't get people's complaint about Ganondorf's appearance in TP was tacked on. When I played the game, I thought Zant was Ganondorf, until I got the complete Fused Shadow (when they finally reveal his name and part of his face)... I was surprised Ganondorf was not the man who was spreading the Twilight, and was puzzled by his disapearance, and then got the answer after the next dungeon... I mean, did anyone not think the same (without having previous knowledge about Zant)? Zant looked just like WW Ganondorf with a helmet, and they just called him "king of light and shadow" until the cutscene at Lanayru Spring...

Wind Waker had the right idea. Give Ganon a soul.

He was a tragic villain of sorts who simply wanted to revive the land he loved to it's former glory. It's not like other games where he's like a stereotypical villain who practically waits to get his ass kicked. Mind you, the same thing happened in Wind Waker, but I forgive that game simply because he had a personality.

All they need to do is revamp his personality, maybe make him tragic again, or genuinely crazed. Change the way you interact with him throughout the game (multiple encounters? No more lastminute.com), and of course, change the way you fight him, Wind Waker had the right idea again as his sword fight in that game had some real hair-pulling moments. And there could even be a section where Link loses his sword and have a magic-off, (not the stupid Harry Potter kind mind you).

I don't want to see him go, if anything, give him a 2-4 game break.

One thing I'd like to mention about Ganondorf's inclusion in Twilight Princess is that I can understand why the writers decided not to give him much of a backstory in that game. They probably thought that giving him a backstory would have made him seem too "human", which wouldn't have worked in the context of the game. Of course, normally "human" villains make for compelling characters, but Twilight Princess already had Zant to fill that role. If Ganondorf had been presented as "human" it would have made him seem like Zant's equal, which wouldn't have made sense at all considering he'd been using Zant as a servant for pretty much the entire game.

Instead, the writers decided to portray Ganondorf as a god-like character, in contrast to Zant's tragic "human" character. Personally, I think it was handled quite well, though I do agree that he should have interacted with the player a few more times before the final battle.

Originally Posted by Meeps

One thing I'd like to mention about Ganondorf's inclusion in Twilight Princess is that I can understand why the writers decided not to give him much of a backstory in that game. They probably thought that giving him a backstory would have made him seem too "human", which wouldn't have worked in the context of the game. Of course, normally "human" villains make for compelling characters, but Twilight Princess already had Zant to fill that role. If Ganondorf had been presented as "human" it would have made him seem like Zant's equal, which wouldn't have made sense at all considering he'd been using Zant as a servant for pretty much the entire game.

Instead, the writers decided to portray Ganondorf as a god-like character, in contrast to Zant's tragic "human" character. Personally, I think it was handled quite well, though I do agree that he should have interacted with the player a few more times before the final battle.

This does make sense when you put it this way, although it isn't really any excuse for givings us only one encounter with Ganon, and almost no backstory whatsoever. I would have been more content with a little bit of info. on how he reached his "god-like" status (Triforce of Power?..... Come to mention it, the Triforce isn't mentioned at all in the game, even though you see it on Link's hand, and Zelda's too if i remember it correctly. Odd....)