Possible Gameplay Mechanic

One thing I've always wanted from Zelda is better and better sword play. And to their credit, slight improvements have been made over and over again. We went from just swinging the sword and the spin attack, Link's signature move, to jump attacks, stabs, parrys, and even special techniques that have to be learned from a master in order to perform them.

However, I think to really improve this area of the game, this style of improvement it outdated and Nintendo really needs to innovate here in the Zelda series. Yet, the game's mechanics are so simple, changing them might alienate casual gamers, a prime target of Nintendo's audience now.

Here's my solution. It incorporates the Wii Motion+ and the A button (or which ever button it is assigned to). As Link is walking around, randomly swinging the wii remote in any direction will cause Link to perform a certain set of moves naturally. I.E. if you want to cut grass down, as your running Link forward, just start thrashing the wii remote around. If you want to do a standard attack combo, just stand still and Link will attack in the direction you are facing or the nearest enemy. Pressing the A button once will sheathe and unsheathe it.

However, holding the A button will make enter "Z-targeting mode". In this mode, sword play radically changes, and you focus on one particular target. The view changes to a side 2-D view and fighting is very similiar to Brawl in this since, only by pressing up, you move in a circle around the enemy into the screen, and vice versa for up.

Basically, my scheme is to work like this. Link is an epic bad @$$, excuse my french, because he is basically a one man army. He takes on hoards of villians at a time and kicks butt. To keep this, Link still can attack with his sword without locking onto enemies by the user "shaking" the wii remote. A set of particular combos will be performed in certain situations, and in dire circumstances, Link will use his Spin Attack to fend off several enemies closing in around him.

This will make the game easily playable for the casual gamer. It doesn't require much skill, and swing the wii remote is much like swinging a real sword (how "realistic" you want to swing the wii remote is up to the, umm, more "enthusiastic" players).

However, some enemies are always tougher than other enemies. Now you may say this will turn the casual player away from Zelda, because the difficulty has increased, and who lacks hacking away at an enemy that just block all their attacks and then smites them.

There are many ways in which to fix this problem. My ideal way would be to give the enemy have a weakness to a particular item, and once that item is obtained, even a novice can beat the combatant. For example, once the bow is obtained, a player can easily pick off a competent swordsman from far away. This is a very simple example, but it could be expanded to armored enemies, for example. Bomb arrows could easily knock shields out of opponents hands.

Now, on the other hand, for the more difficult battles, Link could engage the enemy one on one, in which the view would change as above. What I envision is a more intricate system that allows Link to basically attack and parry an enemies blows, much like in a fighting game. Link could circle the enemy, back away from the enemy, close the distance and attack, etc.

There is where I'm not sure how to proceed. On one hand, I think one-to-one control would be great. It would even allow the casual gamer to try this mode. Holding the "A" button would be like tightening the grip on the sword, getting you ready for a tough battle. To block incoming attack, you could simply hold the shield infront or, my favorite method, actually use the sword to block incoming attacks.

Say the enemy takes a high swing from over his head down at Link. You could raise the wii remote to block the attack by holding the wii remote side ways above your head, just like you would in real life. Under a heavy assault of blows, this would be very fun to try and anticipate attacks and block them accordingly. Be wary though, because not putting the sword in the path of the blow would leave Link wide open for attack.

Attacking would be trickier however. I am not a fan using the wii remote like an actual sword and having to twirl around like a ballerina. Plus, who can fight like those guys in Star Wars or Pirates of the Carribean. I don't know about you, but I want Link to fight like those guys, and not me. I would probably favor a system that maybe used the position of the wii remote and an attack button to string together a different combos for attacking. This would allowing Link to have really cool sequences of attacks, while not requiring the player to learn pay a fortune for fencing classes.

If anyone has ideas on how this could work better or different ways to implement this feature, please share.

To answer the question of different level terrain, what sense would it make in real life for a person fighting an enemy to sidestep off a cliff? If anything, you should be aware of your surroundings and avoid making silly mistakes. After all, you wouldn't let an enemy attack you without blocking, would you? Same concept.

If you happen to though, and now there was some distance between you and the enemy, why would you still be in one on one mode? Wouldn't you either find a way back up or pull out your trusty bow and arrows?

One last issue to address before I let you guys go to town on my idea, you might be wondering, well, what incentive is there for a player to learn to use the combat mode if there is an easier method to defeat any particular enemy?

I have two ideas, the first being the less exciting of the two. In the game, fighting in one on one mode would allow a player to "gain" experience. By gaining experience, a user could learn different techniques, very similar to hidden scrolls or learning from a shade. After so many battles, maybe you return to a master who is now ready to teach you the next technique.
This would work really well for adding items you collect into your combos.

For example, say there was Roc's Feather or the Pegasus Boots in the next game. After performing so many parry's with just the sword, Link could be taught another parry in which he blocks an attack, then flips over the enemy because of the ability of the item, leaving the opponent wide open to attack from behind. My personal favorite would watching Link get up close and personal to an enemy, planting a bomb without the enemy seeing Link do so, and the running away as you watch the unwitting foe explode into a thousand pieces (or a puff of smoke to be kid friendly).

While this idea in and of itself could be a great addition, I said the lesser of the two, because the second option would open up Zelda in a way that has barely been touched. Imagine a combat system that rewarded players for having quicker reflexes than the opponent and knowing what attack will work and which won't. Now, instead of giving the computer god like reflexes and omnipotent moves, give control to another player, and see who is the better player. That's right, I'm taking about 3-D multiplayer, and if Zelda is going to be a serious competitor among the more favorite franchises, like Halo, Call of Duty, various racing games, etc., it needs to have some form of multiplayer.

This sounds a lot like an idea that I used in my paper, if you've seen it. I do like the idea, though.

This sounds like a really cool idea: most people think that if Link is targetting an enemy with the Wiimote, it should go into a closer, maybe even first person view, for combat. But this is new and it makes the game almost seem like Adventure of Link. The context sensitive action is also a great idea, because using the Wiimote to slash things like grass in a very precise manner would get sort of hard.

But there are a few problems with it, like if you're facing an opponent in some unsavory terrain. How would jumping and dodging enemy attacks work in this 2-D perspective? Maybe if Link had a jump button in the next Zelda, but you're still in a 3-D environment. Hmmm...

I agree that there should be a difference between "walking" gameplay and "combat" gameplay, but I don't think the A button should be the trigger; I think the developers should/will continue to use the Z button.

Originally Posted by Layke

One thing I've always wanted from Zelda is better and better sword play. And to their credit, slight improvements have been made over and over again. We went from just swinging the sword and the spin attack, Link's signature move, to jump attacks, stabs, parrys, and even special techniques that have to be learned from a master in order to perform them.

However, I think to really improve this area of the game, this style of improvement it outdated and Nintendo really needs to innovate here in the Zelda series. Yet, the game's mechanics are so simple, changing them might alienate casual gamers, a prime target of Nintendo's audience now.

Here's my solution. It incorporates the Wii Motion+ and the A button (or which ever button it is assigned to). As Link is walking around, randomly swinging the wii remote in any direction will cause Link to perform a certain set of moves naturally. I.E. if you want to cut grass down, as your running Link forward, just start thrashing the wii remote around. If you want to do a standard attack combo, just stand still and Link will attack in the direction you are facing or the nearest enemy. Pressing the A button once will sheathe and unsheathe it.

However, holding the A button will make enter "Z-targeting mode". In this mode, sword play radically changes, and you focus on one particular target. The view changes to a side 2-D view and fighting is very similiar to Brawl in this since, only by pressing up, you move in a circle around the enemy into the screen, and vice versa for up.

Unfortunately, I have to leave for class, but I'll elaborate on this when I get back. Hopefully you see where this is going.

They need to make Zelda games WITHOUT THE WII SPECIAL EFFECTS.

Well its pretty much been confrimed that ZWII is going to use wii motion plus. Although i agree that the sword system needs an overhaul, i still want it to feel like i am playing a Zelda game.

Originally Posted by Watties

They need to make Zelda games WITHOUT THE WII SPECIAL EFFECTS.

>_>

When a designer tries hard enough, the Wii is awesome. And I'm pretty sure Nintendo tries hard on each of their Zelda games.

I disagree with a 2-d fighting mode; it seems like a step backwards to me. I love the idea of context sensitive swordplay though.

Originally Posted by Artemicion

I agree that there should be a difference between "walking" gameplay and "combat" gameplay, but I don't think the A button should be the trigger; I think the developers should/will continue to use the Z button.

In my first post, I say that any button could work. It could be Z or A or B. I think what you were getting at is using a button much like Z-Targeting? In that case, my way still works, and I'll explain why below. A quick note, however, would be that using the A button to draw one's sword and for locking onto an enemy would free up said button for other uses.

Originally Posted by TheBattler

This sounds like a really cool idea: most people think that if Link is targetting an enemy with the Wiimote, it should go into a closer, maybe even first person view, for combat. But this is new and it makes the game almost seem like Adventure of Link. The context sensitive action is also a great idea, because using the Wiimote to slash things like grass in a very precise manner would get sort of hard.

But there are a few problems with it, like if you're facing an opponent in some unsavory terrain. How would jumping and dodging enemy attacks work in this 2-D perspective? Maybe if Link had a jump button in the next Zelda, but you're still in a 3-D environment. Hmmm...

So this is what I was wanting to get at early and had to go to class. I shall continue and explain this problem.

Basically, my scheme is to work like this. Link is an epic bad @$$, excuse my french, because he is basically a one man army. He takes on hoards of villians at a time and kicks butt. To keep this, Link still can attack with his sword without locking onto enemies by the user "shaking" the wii remote. A set of particular combos will be performed in certain situations, and in dire circumstances, Link will use his Spin Attack to fend off several enemies closing in around him.

This will make the game easily playable for the casual gamer. It doesn't require much skill, and swing the wii remote is much like swinging a real sword (how "realistic" you want to swing the wii remote is up to the, umm, more "enthusiastic" players).

However, some enemies are always tougher than other enemies. Now you may say this will turn the casual player away from Zelda, because the difficulty has increased, and who lacks hacking away at an enemy that just block all their attacks and then smites them.

There are many ways in which to fix this problem. My ideal way would be to give the enemy have a weakness to a particular item, and once that item is obtained, even a novice can beat the combatant. For example, once the bow is obtained, a player can easily pick off a competent swordsman from far away. This is a very simple example, but it could be expanded to armored enemies, for example. Bomb arrows could easily knock shields out of opponents hands.

Now, on the other hand, for the more difficult battles, Link could engage the enemy one on one, in which the view would change as above. What I envision is a more intricate system that allows Link to basically attack and parry an enemies blows, much like in a fighting game. Link could circle the enemy, back away from the enemy, close the distance and attack, etc.

There is where I'm not sure how to proceed. On one hand, I think one-to-one control would be great. It would even allow the casual gamer to try this mode. Holding the "A" button would be like tightening the grip on the sword, getting you ready for a tough battle. To block incoming attack, you could simply hold the shield infront or, my favorite method, actually use the sword to block incoming attacks.

Say the enemy takes a high swing from over his head down at Link. You could raise the wii remote to block the attack by holding the wii remote side ways above your head, just like you would in real life. Under a heavy assault of blows, this would be very fun to try and anticipate attacks and block them accordingly. Be wary though, because not putting the sword in the path of the blow would leave Link wide open for attack.

Attacking would be trickier however. I am not a fan using the wii remote like an actual sword and having to twirl around like a ballerina. Plus, who can fight like those guys in Star Wars or Pirates of the Carribean. I don't know about you, but I want Link to fight like those guys, and not me. I would probably favor a system that maybe used the position of the wii remote and an attack button to string together a different combos for attacking. This would allowing Link to have really cool sequences of attacks, while not requiring the player to learn pay a fortune for fencing classes.

If anyone has ideas on how this could work better or different ways to implement this feature, please share.

To answer the question of different level terrain, what sense would it make in real life for a person fighting an enemy to sidestep off a cliff? If anything, you should be aware of your surroundings and avoid making silly mistakes. After all, you wouldn't let an enemy attack you without blocking, would you? Same concept.

If you happen to though, and now there was some distance between you and the enemy, why would you still be in one on one mode? Wouldn't you either find a way back up or pull out your trusty bow and arrows?

One last issue to address before I let you guys go to town on my idea, you might be wondering, well, what incentive is there for a player to learn to use the combat mode if there is an easier method to defeat any particular enemy?

I have two ideas, the first being the less exciting of the two. In the game, fighting in one on one mode would allow a player to "gain" experience. By gaining experience, a user could learn different techniques, very similar to hidden scrolls or learning from a shade. After so many battles, maybe you return to a master who is now ready to teach you the next technique.
This would work really well for adding items you collect into your combos.

For example, say there was Roc's Feather or the Pegasus Boots in the next game. After performing so many parry's with just the sword, Link could be taught another parry in which he blocks an attack, then flips over the enemy because of the ability of the item, leaving the opponent wide open to attack from behind. My personal favorite would watching Link get up close and personal to an enemy, planting a bomb without the enemy seeing Link do so, and the running away as you watch the unwitting foe explode into a thousand pieces (or a puff of smoke to be kid friendly).

While this idea in and of itself could be a great addition, I said the lesser of the two, because the second option would open up Zelda in a way that has barely been touched. Imagine a combat system that rewarded players for having quicker reflexes than the opponent and knowing what attack will work and which won't. Now, instead of giving the computer god like reflexes and omnipotent moves, give control to another player, and see who is the better player. That's right, I'm taking about 3-D multiplayer, and if Zelda is going to be a serious competitor among the more favorite franchises, like Halo, Call of Duty, various racing games, etc., it needs to have some form of multiplayer.

Ok, long read, hack away now neigh sayers.

Originally Posted by 3percentmilk

I disagree with a 2-d fighting mode; it seems like a step backwards to me. I love the idea of context sensitive swordplay though.

Not a step backwards, just enhancing the second Zelda's system of combat. Plus, like I said at first, a player is allowed the option of using third person sword fighting, it just won't be anything special compared to what you have already seen.

Originally Posted by Layke

Not a step backwards, just enhancing the second Zelda's system of combat. Plus, like I said at first, a player is allowed the option of using third person sword fighting, it just won't be anything special compared to what you have already seen.

Firstly, I wrote that reply of mine before you came back with that beast of a post (which I liked, btw, lots of good ideas)

Secondly, I just can't see how taking away a dimension of movement would add to the gameplay. It just seems limiting to me, and reminds me of AoL.

It just seems to me that you could do more, and see more in 3 dimensions.

Originally Posted by 3percentmilk

Firstly, I wrote that reply of mine before you came back with that beast of a post (which I liked, btw, lots of good ideas)

Secondly, I just can't see how taking away a dimension of movement would add to the gameplay. It just seems limiting to me, and reminds me of AoL.

It just seems to me that you could do more, and see more in 3 dimensions.

Sorry, it seems to me that you took my response in a negative way. Sorry, let me clarify. I only meant to show you that I still am incorporating the old style of play along with a new style.

I would also argue that I'm not taking away any dimension of movement. Link can still move in any direction in 3-D that he wants, only the perspective loses a dimension. Really though, it just follows Link as he moves through the 3-D, so its really just a matter of camera position. At any time Link can go back to a 3-D perspective from behind his back.

Couldn't a style of swordplay similar to the fencing in Wii Sports Resort work? One-to-One motion capturing, with the trick being that harder opponents have shields and block every attack you make. If you can use the nunchuk to control the shield during battle, then that'll be 'block', and an enemy whose attack is blocked can be momentarily thrown off-balance, creating an opportunity to strike.

THEN, even harder enemies could be made so that they, like the Phantoms in PH, only have a weak point on a single spot on their body. This would force the player to strike with precision, which is hard but not too hard when you have 1-to-1 motion capturing.

THEN there would be enemies who cannot be stunned, but don't have PERFECT blocking, allowing you to overload their defenses (similar to Iron Knuckles in AoL - you vary your attacks while keeping your defence up, and eventually their shield can't keep up with your sword).

EVEN HARDER enemies could be made so that they have varied attacks, and if you, say, block high, that will not protect you from a low attack. This would keep you on your toes while you try to throw enemies off balance with a block, which is then difficult, but far from impossible, since this would be after much practice with the easier enemies.

Gradual progression of enemy difficulty from easy to kinda hard to hard to harder to really hard would make things much easier for the player while still giving a sense of accomplishment when they have mastered the swordplay.

I think what would be really neat was if you could use your shield more like a weapon/tool besides just a bocking/bashing device. Like using your shield to close in and open your opponent's shield forcefully so you can get in and stab at their chest. Or grappling! Being able to get physical with an opponent aside from slashing a sword would be magnificent. Could you imagine how awesome it would be to get into your opponent's face and grapple their weapon away from them and then kill them with their own weapon? Or shield kicking. Or ankle picking!

I know that my idea would never happen in a video game. Not unless they gave you a virtual suit or something. Then you'd just look silly.