Interesting things about Zelda2005

Hi folks, glad to see the froums back up but thats not nearly as happy as I was to see that we have a brand spanking new Zelda to look forwards to this year and one that isn't actually cel shaded at all. Thats nothing compared to the fact that they said the development progress is now just at the stage of designing the content as the engine and graphics are more or less finished.

Some things of note from the screenies and videos though in reguards to cronology and guesses at the story and some hard facts this time.

First of all its great to see that this is the same Link from Wind Waker only having grown up, as Miyamoto said in the interview the original was covering his younger days and now he's all grown up and around 16 years old. That means around 5-6 years have passed from the events of Wind Waker. Some might say that its nonsense to say that its the same Link and that Miyamoto is just referring to an older Link. However this is actually a sequel remember which strengthens his statement that the WW Link is now all grown up.

Secondly and most important, it seems that Hyrule is back on the surface of the ocean. The short trailer video is currently using music from the WW trailer and opens with scenes of what looks remarkably like Hyrule Field right down to the location of the Zora river that reaches around to the edge of the Kokiri forest. Only now there is a bridge there. In the distance we see the mountains suggesting that we are back in Hyrule for this. There is also Hyrule castle seen in the video as is evident by the Triforce symbol on the arch of the main gate.

Lastly we have the absense of the Master Sword, the presense of the Hylian Shield with the same design as in OoT (when we know that the design changed for WW as information about Hyrule was lost) and we have the designs of the Bokoblins and Moblins just like upgraded versions of the ones in Wind Waker suggesting again its a continuation from the WW storyline and world. There is also a horse in this one however it doesn't appear to be Epona as it's lacking the special saddle and has different markings.

The sudden increase in the number of enemies and the somewhat warlike atmosphere to the trailer leads me to think that this might just be the Imprisoning War finale which would be the first time in the last 10 years that Nintendo has done a sequel to a main game which is actually having a Triforce based storyline rather than something which is happening seperate. The fact it looks alot like Hyrule is odd enough to raise alot of intrigue about this games storyline.

I don't think it is the same Link. Miyamoto said this was a grown up Link, but he did not say it was the Link from TWW grown up. The only evidence we ever had that it was a sequel to TWW was the title "The Wind Waker 2", which, it may be noted, has now been changed to simply "Legend of Zelda GC". The fact that it appears to take place in the Hyrule of OOT seems to support this, since Hyrule was destroyed for good at the end of TWW. It looks more like a sequel to OOT, probably taking place after Link returned from Termina. It may in fact be the Imprisoning War in the LTTP timeline, if you believe in the multiple timeline theory. One thing is for sure, this is definitely going to raise many many more timeline arguments.

Well the odd thing is how it talks about this being a sequel to WW for starters and then it talks about using an a grown up Link. It seems a bit odd to have a game's sequel and then use another Link entirely. Then again they do seem to be going for a Triforce story this time around which is the first time in recent Zelda games for their sequels so you might well be right as they're doing something new. They might just be calling it WW2 in order to use the hype from the last game to fuel this one until it can stand on its own two feet.

Consider Tal-N that time always passes and that people grow, emotionally, physically and mentally. They change. This holds true in the fictional worlds we have created as well as reality. Thus it is quite possible that this New Link is the same as the one from TWW. We will only be able to tell once we have the game in our hands.

First of all its great to see that this is the same Link from Wind Waker only having grown up, as Miyamoto said in the interview the original was covering his younger days and now he's all grown up and around 16 years old.

If you go back and read the interveiw more closely, there was never any confirmation that this was the same Link from tWW, only that it was a sorta of continuation/evolution of the theme.

However this is actually a sequel remember which strengthens his statement that the WW Link is now all grown up.

There isn't much indication that this is a direct sequel, either. At least not any more then any Zelda game is to another. Unless you count the fact that it was being called tWW2, but that doens't really mean much.



Now, what is this with everyone always assuming that it's OoT Hyrule? Yes, it may look like OoT Hyrule, but is more to do with the similar style then similar locations.

And you'll remember that LttP had the same layout for it's Hyrule as OoT did, yet they take places hundreds of years apart.


Moved to Future Zelda.

I believe it's the same Link, since the reason the first WW was cel shaded was to show that he was younger. That was the whole reason. Miyamoto said that they changed the style to show his transition into adulthood. So I'm assuming that it's the same Link, though I can't be sure. None of us can. With such small amounts of information to go off of, we're all deciding things about the game too early; i.e- its in Hyrule, there's not Master Sword.

I think it'll be the same Link, it'd be too stupid to set up WW with a direct sequel but then to not make it the next game to be released.

Originally Posted by Tal-N

First of all its great to see that this is the same Link from Wind Waker only having grown up, as Miyamoto said in the interview the original was covering his younger days and now he's all grown up and around 16 years old. That means around 5-6 years have passed from the events of Wind Waker. Some might say that its nonsense to say that its the same Link and that Miyamoto is just referring to an older Link. However this is actually a sequel remember which strengthens his statement that the WW Link is now all grown up.

all indications are Link is not the same as he who was featured in TWW.

Originally Posted by Shigeru Miyamoto

Just very quickly though, as for the reason why Link has changed, there were very, very, very, very many people out there who wanted Link to change (laughs). Also there's another reason and that's that in developing the Wind Waker we know that we were going to be creating a game in which Link was a young boy and trying to create a very active and very energetic young boy and trying to choose the right style for portraying the young boy in a game like that we tried many different experiments. The ultimate decision we came to was that the cel-shading in Wind Waker was the best option for expressing that. We also wanted to create a very unique game world on the GameCube.

But since then, we've been left with a very big question: and that was, what are we going to do when we decide to make Link a teenager again -- a 16-year-old Link. So after Wind Waker we tried several different models and made varied versions of them. Ultimately we decided that in showing a teenage Link really the best style of expressing him would be something that's closer to our graphical style in Ocarina of Time. So Mr. Aonuma actually wasn't lying at the Game Developer's Conference when he said we were working on Wind Waker 2. He just didn't tell the whole story. And fortunately because he didn't tell the whole story, we were able to surprise you all here with a big announcement about the series

emphasis added

As anyone can hopefully see what he said is that this Link is new. The words liek 'again' give it away; TWW Link was never a teenager, how could he be one 'again'? The answer being that Link is just being used as the name of the character not the name of a person in the interwiew.

So in summation, TWW and this Link have been indicated to not be one in the same and the use of 'TWW 2' shouldbe in reference to the game and it's engine, not the game and it's story.

Other things... I will be one to contend that this is Hyrule that we have seen, I will also suggest it is a Hyrule before the flood, a doomed Hyrule. This is evident of the enemies and there being land, as well as the castle, and even the shield. It should be noted though that the shield lacks the triangle under the falcon.

There is no reason to say that the Master Sword won't be in the game, simply not seeing footage of it doesn't mean anything. Though something to keep in mind is that if the sword does come into play the tiemframe narrows to long after TWW, or before the Great Flood(but after OoT).

One last thing, horses get old and die, odds of it being the same horse unless it's OoT Link are non-existant(and I hope no one thinks it's OoT Link at this point)(horses are allowed to have the saem names though).

Originally Posted by ZeldaFreak++

all indications are Link is not the same as he who was featured in TWW.

emphasis added

As anyone can hopefully see what he said is that this Link is new. The words liek 'again' give it away; TWW Link was never a teenager, how could he be one 'again'? The answer being that Link is just being used as the name of the character not the name of a person in the interwiew.

He probably meant again as in Link, as a whole in the series, is a teenager again...after all, one could say that when ALttP was made, Link was a teenager again, yet most people think he is a different Link than in AoL, where Link was also a teenager. So I think it is tWW Link. Why have OoT Link back again anyway?

Because they are all "Link" and it doesn't really matter?

There is no reason to say that the Master Sword won't be in the game, simply not seeing footage of it doesn't mean anything. Though something to keep in mind is that if the sword does come into play the tiemframe narrows to long after TWW, or before the Great Flood(but after OoT).

Yes... in support of that, the Master Sword DOES appear in the logo, though it's probably a safe bet that that is not the final logo.

One more thing... the artwork depicts Link holding a sword tha tis not the Master sword... and the Master sword has become a sort of Zelda trademark, almost as recognizabl as Link himself. I don't think they would have depicted Link holding a sword that is not the Master Sword unless the Master Sword was not going to make an appearance.

Originally Posted by sesshoumaru

He probably meant again as in Link, as a whole in the series, is a teenager again...after all, one could say that when ALttP was made, Link was a teenager again, yet most people think he is a different Link than in AoL, where Link was also a teenager. So I think it is tWW Link. Why have OoT Link back again anyway?

I don't think OoT Link is comign back again, never did, never will. I think it will be soemone we've never seen before. And liek I elaborated on before, not TWW's feature hero.

Originally Posted by lord-of-shadow

One more thing... the artwork depicts Link holding a sword tha tis not the Master sword... and the Master sword has become a sort of Zelda trademark, almost as recognizabl as Link himself. I don't think they would have depicted Link holding a sword that is not the Master Sword unless the Master Sword was not going to make an appearance.

Take a look at most, it not all(I looked through ZU and Zelda Legends), Wind Waker official art of Link. There has to be a level of unknown to it. What fun would it be to come out and say that the Blad of Evil's Bane will be in the game to vanquish evil?

Though just because it isn't ruled out, I wouldn't say it is likely. If the words in the preview shed any light onto the subject(which I hope they do) then it would be a miracle to see this man save Hyrule. We already know that there is one time when it isn't saved, I hope this is that time, and that the person we see in the preview is soem sort of false prophet. I hope this is whenthe hero doesn't come.

Originally Posted by TheOnlyJaz

I think it'll be the same Link, it'd be too stupid to set up WW with a direct sequel but then to not make it the next game to be released.

We need more big-picture reasoning like this on these forums!

Yes, I also believe this will be the same Link. When saying Link being a teenager again, he most likely means that OoT included the first 3D teenage Link, and this game will feature a different teenage Link. This doesn't change the fact that a Link will be presented as a teenager again.

Also, most fields look the same. It's likely that this next land will be the next Hyrule. Most continents contain large grassy fields, so you don't have to assume this will be OoT's Hyrule. OoT is finished. Move on.

As anyone can hopefully see what he said is that this Link is new. The words liek 'again' give it away; TWW Link was never a teenager, how could he be one 'again'?

Again as in: Like in the other games, such as OoT, which he was a teenager in. Not again as in a new Link. Like Sesshoumaro said. They're making a teenage Link. Eventually, the Wind Waker Link does grow up, like it or not, so why can't this be him? Of course, it may very well be a new Link. How much does it matter right now?

Any of you who played the Wind Waker and completed it should remember where the Master Sword ended up. So, if this truly is a sequel to the Wind Waker (which I believe 100% due to quite a bit of evidence) then the Master Sword will be in the same place as it was, though that could very easily change at some point in the game.

Originally Posted by Miniblin

Eventually, the Wind Waker Link does grow up, like it or not, so why can't this be him? Of course, it may very well be a new Link. How much does it matter right now?

Why? Becuase of the surroundings and what we have seen so far. There is a castle for starters, Link rides a horse, it is a vast open area, there is no sign of a boat, there is no characteristic of the place to suggest this isn't Hyrule. And more to suggest the Link didn't stumble solely onto this land that was already developed without anything that defined the last game at all. Of course, he could have made ti soemwhere, got a horse, made a castle, got the Hylian shield in some far off land, what do I know?

And beside any of that the whole "Aonuma not lieing about the game being TWW2" even though it looks nothing liek what anyone expected points even more in the direct that it is not the same person in the game.

*ahem* Do you not remember there being a Hyrule in the Wind Waker? Think, think hard.

Regarding Link:

I'm personally currently banking on this Link being closer in relation to the Link of OoT. Primarily a matter of the shield, the horse, and the earing. The latter in particular, as I seem to recall an interview where Miyamoto identified distaste for the earing in OoT, making it seem to be somewhat of a forced inclusion.

That said, they're all little things. With the changes observed over E3 it's really hard to place this Link at the moment. Perhaps it's been intentionally withheld?

Just for fun. The poses make it seem to be an almost intentional comparison. Some interesting similarities, some interesting differences. Take as you will.


Regarding the Land:

Fields, hills, dungeons, and the front of a walled area. Again, not enough to judge. Most aspects could be virtually any land. The only significant aspect is perhaps the facade of the walled area, looking as if it were (almost) right out of OoT, and featuring various Triforce symbols.


Regarding the swords:

The logos thusfar are almost certainly temporary. For the trailers they were using the OoT logo with no modifications. For the conference they were using the ALttP/LA logo with no modifications. Nothing in particular to be gleaned. No cause to believe it'll be in the game or not, with all the WW artwork not featuring the Master Sword (as I believe ZF pointed out), but it appearing in the game nonetheless.

Heck, even the official artwork's sword differs from the in-game model in its beveling.


I don't think there's much more to say. Isn't it more important to, perhaps, compile all the major observed aspects before actually extrapolating from them? Across the various forums there's some really wild speculation going on.

Well, all I can say is that this is really interesting. And about the earing... its on the wrong ear! As I recall, it was on Link's left ear (if he was standing next to you) in OoT, but now its on its right. Of course, I haven't played OoT for a long time, so I don't know. I just find that odd.

And where'd this whole Hyrule thing come from? That does not look like Kokiri forest to me, and if it is, something happened to it. A big field does not mean Hyrule field and a large white building doesn't mean Hyrule Castle. I think we're all hoping for a little much.

Don't hold anything I've said against me. I'm young and naive and have no clue what I'm talking about.

And more to suggest the Link didn't stumble solely onto this land that was already developed without anything that defined the last game at all.

Hmm? If understand that correctly, your telling me Link can't be on a new land because there was nothing about it in the other game. One word (or two, actually): MAJORA'S MASK. But arguing this will get both of us no where. Let's wait and find out where he is and who he is later.

Actually, the Hero of Time had both ears pierced, but anyway...