Seeable Deletes: The Mods Never Make Up Their Crazy Minds.

Many of the staff were talking about how they MIGHT put in seeable deletes in the forum. What is this? Well, I don't know how it works in vBulletin, but I'm used to it as the following:

[User Name]
[Statement]: "This comment has been deleted by [ User Name] for [Reason].
[Date Of Delete.]

It takes the place of a deleted post...

Will this cause less, or more problems? Will members complain about it if there is a reason? Or, will they just say "My comment was not _____!"? Usually, when a member gets a comment deleted:

-They don't notice.
-They don't care.
-They get upset about it.
-[Sometimes] PM/send a message to a mod.

Does ZU need this?

For every problem that it solves, it creates a new one.

^Yes, but they sometimes get resolved...

Jason makes new rules for a reason. I'm not sure if this could be changed so it's less of a problem, but it can always be tried. If it really sucks, Jason could always pull the plug.

Maybe people shouldn't see deletes for everyone else's posts, but I think that members should be able to see if their post has been deleted, as well as the moderator's reason for deleting it.

It's been debated, I know that. It creates problems, the question is does it solve more then it creates.

I don't know, but it would be cool if each deleted, or edited, post sent a pm to the person's who post it was with who did it and why.

That would help a lot.

If implemented, I think that it should only be seeable (random note: my spell check says that seeable is not a word) by the person who posted it.

This might be a possibility with some tweaking but is not a priority and public viewing of deletes will never cause a solution but even more of a problem. The reasons are there for investigations for staff.

I personally believe that this option will make matters worse for the whole of ZU.

People will be complaining of such and such and that their comments didn't need to be deleted and thus arguments will be brought out.

You just need to view it pessimistically to get the idea.

We are looking into this, mostly so that members have a record of where their posts went, and why.

I also don't see it causing many problems, but it's also not a priority to get it in place, if it can even be done in vB at all.

I agree, mostly because there is zero accountability under the current system and this at least gives members a viable check on mods.

Originally Posted by Eternal Paradox

I personally believe that this option will make matters worse for the whole of ZU.

People will be complaining of such and such and that their comments didn't need to be deleted and thus arguments will be brought out.

This is already happening, so it's not going to create this as a problem.

Originally Posted by Nathan

I don't know, but it would be cool if each deleted, or edited, post sent a pm to the person's who post it was with who did it and why.

This, however, would work even better. I doubt it could be automatic, although if a delete does occur moderators do need to make note, either in the thread or in PM, of why it occurred. While visible deletes may not be the best solution, complete invisibility of moderator actions clearly isn't working.

If they explain why they have deleted the post then i vote yes.

Originally Posted by Mr. Lexxi Aileron

This, however, would work even better. I doubt it could be automatic, although if a delete does occur moderators do need to make note, either in the thread or in PM, of why it occurred. While visible deletes may not be the best solution, complete invisibility of moderator actions clearly isn't working.

I've mentioned before why such things tend to be impractical.


Mostly: I'm not on ZU 24/7 so I tend to come back to find, say, a dozen+ posts that need deleting, often across multiple threads. In that situation it can take a significant amount of time to send PMs to everyone explaining exactly why their posts are gone.

In addition, I've gotten complaints from people that they hate it when I send them PMs about that, since it fills up their inbox with needless clutter that they don't care about. :/.

Mostly: I'm not on ZU 24/7 so I tend to come back to find, say, a dozen+ posts that need deleting, often across multiple threads. In that situation it can take a significant amount of time to send PMs to everyone explaining exactly why their posts are gone.

In addition, I've gotten complaints from people that they hate it when I send them PMs about that, since it fills up their in box with needless clutter that they don't care about. :/.

There could be a auto message that says "This Message was deleted for ____." ...and, members could have the option to receive those messages, or not.

This was discussed ages ago in a different thread, and I was informed that it was being looked in to.

That said, all that really needs to happen is for Jason to have say yes or no, and if yes, look into how to implement this. If the latter is happenng, then it'd be cool if we could get some updates as things like this happen. :>

I'd rather not see it. I mean, the point of deleting a post is to get rid of it. Doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose if all it does is stick a big thing saying "This was deleted" in the spot instead? I think it just creates more clutter. And, when we could see deleted ones in the Graphics Forum, I don't think anyone really used it or cared. We just decided it was a cool feature then stopped caring. I can't see it helping much to have deleted posts visible. Honestly, I think it'd be more of a pain.

There could be a auto message that says "This Message was deleted for ____." ...and, members could have the option to receive those messages, or not.

No. Please no. Especially since mods have been known to delete whole conversations before. So that would mean getting a dozen new messages because one section of a thread was deleted. Which seems kinda dumb.

Also, if the person didn't care enough to make the post good enough to be not deleted, what are the chances that they'd even realize that it's gone? I think if you leave it saying that the post was deleted then twice as many people would complain because they'd actually know that the post was gone.

Hmm. If the only reason for wanting them to show is that that members know where the posts went, is it possible to make it so that just the member who's post was deleted could see it?

Originally Posted by Dog Dog 123

Hmm. If the only reason for wanting them to show is that that members know where the posts went, is it possible to make it so that just the member who's post was deleted could see it?

That's what I'm in favor of. That way, the person knows it was deleted, and they can contact the mod about it. It also would cut down on these absurd conspiracy theories that the mods only delete because they're trying to destroy evidence/hide things.

Originally Posted by Rew

That's what I'm in favor of. That way, the person knows it was deleted, and they can contact the mod about it. It also would cut down on these absurd conspiracy theories that the mods only delete because they're trying to destroy evidence/hide things.

And is something I personally would like to address. However, as what can be seen, I already have a lot on my plate inside and outside of ZU, gotta fix things that have been implemented before I go too crazy on adding more.

I'll just have to look into how vB handles deletion notices, and I might be able to allow the poster of the post to view the deletion note without the risk of moderation controls being used (whether or not such controls would ever work of course).

I'll report my findigns when I'm able to look into it, but this would be the right things to do so that even if there is no reason stated (for whatever reason the mod had to not put a reason), it will state who deleted it for further talk and discussions.

Originally Posted by gdwarf

I've mentioned before why such things tend to be impractical.


Mostly: I'm not on ZU 24/7 so I tend to come back to find, say, a dozen+ posts that need deleting, often across multiple threads. In that situation it can take a significant amount of time to send PMs to everyone explaining exactly why their posts are gone.

In addition, I've gotten complaints from people that they hate it when I send them PMs about that, since it fills up their inbox with needless clutter that they don't care about. :/.

This can be automated. There can also be a check box added in the profile to "ignore" and/or block all automated messages, so the power is in the users hands if they really want to see them.

How do I know this possible? Because, VB, no matter what way you slice it, is all code. Code can be edited, especially php. I've seen the exact thing I proposed done on many other forums through custimization. You should never really rely on a mod made by someone else unless you can disect it and understand how it's doing what it is doing, and patch any loop holes yourself.

At a forum the size of ZU, I am assured there is someone able to customly create such things. In fact, my co-webmaster who frequents here, EA, can and has done such things. If he can build from the ground up a entire automatic brawl league system that ties into the forum userbase, I am sure something as simple as what I suggested is not only doable, but easily so. In fact, I remember having this customly done back when I had VB forums.

It takes the hassle out of the moderators, prevents what happened from being brought up in the thread, and everyone knows why it happened to begin with, without disputes. While some members don't like the clutter - it's not like every post they make gets deleted is it? If that was the case, they most likely wouldn't be here anymore. More then likely, it may be once a week at most for average users.

I think those that don't like it can easily deal with that.

This should be able to be done without the need of an actual mod, but it would be nice. And yes, as said, it CAN be done like other things here, it's just the range of difficulty and coding that needs to be taken to mind. Jason has already tried looking for another to help fix up the rest of the temple style with only getting the usernames fixed as the result. So, there are ways, but Jason is on a tight budget at the moment. If someone would like to do it, then it's a possibility, but that is a risky addition.

If deleting a message, there could be a text window underneath where a mod could write the reason why the message is being deleted, then confirm with the deletion. Then, a PM would automatically be sent to the member who's post was deleted, showing what the mod typed up for a reason, that would see in the message.

Could that be implemented somehow?

(And apologies if that paragraph is poor. It's late. ^_^')