Zelda Universe Forums - Zelda Theorizing http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/ Think you have what it takes to be a cool Zelda Theorist like Cody? All Zelda-related theories and the discussion thereof belong here. en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:46:56 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/images/zutemple/misc/rss.jpg Zelda Universe Forums - Zelda Theorizing http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/ The True Identities of the TriForce http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102749-the-true-identities-of-the-triforce-new-post.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:35:30 GMT Yes, you read that correctly. The True Identities of the TriForce. I will keep this brief. It does not even belong in Theorizing, as it is simply Zelda history in its purest form, but you may do with it what you please ;0) There are three TriForce pieces. One piece is named Zelda,... Yes, you read that correctly. The True Identities of the TriForce.

I will keep this brief. It does not even belong in Theorizing, as it is simply Zelda history in its purest form, but you may do with it what you please ;0)

There are three TriForce pieces.

One piece is named Zelda, another Link, and another Ganon. They are actually semi-spiritual beings who form symbiotic, metaphysical relationships with their hosts.

These beings (the TriForce pieces) tend to appreciate continuing on through bloodlines of their former hosts, but they are not constrained to this convention (necessity and tradition having a say in all).

*closes the book of BBD's Solid Truth*

So it was written. So I have spoken.

:mastahsword::waggle: ]]> Zelda Theorizing Big Bro Davidia http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102749-the-true-identities-of-the-triforce.html Timeline, sans creators http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102706-timeline-sans-creators-new-post.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:18:43 GMT With all the recent hoopla over the developers having a grand plan (or not), their quotes being meaningful (or NOT), and their dodgeball exploits on the weekends (and casual Friday), I decided to come up with a little experiment: If we ignore everything the creators have said about the timeline,... With all the recent hoopla over the developers having a grand plan (or not), their quotes being meaningful (or NOT), and their dodgeball exploits on the weekends (and casual Friday), I decided to come up with a little experiment:

If we ignore everything the creators have said about the timeline, as well as "developer intent," and YOU were in absolute control of what the games mean, what would your timeline be?

This means you can have a linear timeline if you so desire, you can put as many games as you want between "game X" and "game Y" (as "game Y" is no longer rigidly defined as "100 years after game X"), and OoT could be closer to the tail end of the timeline (as who's to say it ever had to be first?).

Feel free to omit games as well, just for chips and wiggles, but justify why you did not include them. Also explain your timeline from start to finish.

My timeline would probably go something like this:

TMC-OoT/FS/FSA/MM-ALttP/OoS/OoA/LA-TP-LoZ/AoL-TWW/PH-ST

1) Linear timeline
Before I had ever played any of the games outside of OoT and MM, my first impression from OoT's ending was that it basically "reset" everything that happened in what we know as the Adult timeline. Zelda's decision to send Link back to the past was designed to prevent everything from ever happening. This was, again, before I'd heard of the Imprisoning War or the split timeline, and so I had no real understanding that OoT would necessarily carry over to the rest of the series. For nostalgia's sake, I'm going to use this old belief for this timeline. Adult OoT never happens; but you'll see how OoT is important to the timeline coming up...

2) Early placement of FS series
Again, my earliest impression of FSA was that its Ganondorf was actually Ganondorf from OoT, but that because of the different story progression, FSA consisted of the "alternate" events occurring on the Child timeline. I'm going to use that belief for this timeline. After returning to the past, Link helps Zelda deal with Hyrule's evils before realizing that Ganondorf still poses a threat to their kingdom. He helps Zelda seal Ganon away, and then, having saved Hyrule again from evil, goes to find Navi.

3) ALttP arc
ALttP's placement is pretty self-explanatory - it follows-up Ganon's sealing in FSA. How he got the Triforce is admittedly difficult to say, but that's true wherever you place ALttP, given that he didn't get it in any of the games where he was sealed. OoS/OoA seem like obvious interquels between ALttP and LA, and Link's Triforce mark seems to represent his heroic deeds+Triforce affinity due to ALttP.

4) Late-placed TP, LoZ/AoL, and TWW arcs
TP says that Ganondorf had already "descended and been reborn in this world," so it seems he had been killed before, but revived with Zant's help. Being now reunited and free of a master, the Triforce yet again seeks out chosen wielders as it did in OoT. Stuff happens, Ganon is killed, and the Triforce is safe... for now. LoZ/AoL happen after; TWW happens as the penultimate final battle for Hyrule between Link and Ganon. The "Hero of Time" remembered in this fight is simply the many heroes appearing over time. ]]> Zelda Theorizing Lex http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102706-timeline-sans-creators.html My Timeline :/ http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102704-my-timeline-new-post.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:02:21 GMT This is my current Timeline: -----WW - PH - ST - MC - FS - FSA - LoZ- AoL OoT ---- MM - TP - AlttP - OoX - LA please tell me if theres something wrong with my timeline, or if you have any suggestions for me :). This is my current Timeline:


-----WW - PH - ST - MC - FS - FSA - LoZ- AoL
OoT
---- MM - TP - AlttP - OoX - LA


please tell me if theres something wrong with my timeline, or if you have any suggestions for me :). ]]> Zelda Theorizing Exziron http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102704-my-timeline.html <![CDATA[It's Every Hero's time]]> http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102691-its-every-heros-time-new-post.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:53:24 GMT Is there any information that states that a hero must apear every 100 years? I've heard this but I havn't seen any proof (eg: quotes, videos, dialouge) ]]> Zelda Theorizing Exziron http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102691-its-every-heros-time.html Did you speculate Master Sword? Also- Aonuma reads what fans theorise! http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102687-did-you-speculate-master-sword-also-aonuma-reads-what-fans-theorise-new-post.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:08:08 GMT
Quote:
ONM:
Zelda mastermind Eiji Aonuma has told ONM that some of the speculation surrounding the Zelda Wii artwork released at E3 was right - but wouldn't confirm anything more.



Who is the character standing in front of Link?
Speaking in an ONM-exclusive interview, Aonuma confirmed that someone out there in internet land has already worked out what the deal is with the character standing in front of Link in the E3 artwork - but wasn't allowed to say any more.

"You will have to wait until next year when we can elaborate on this and many other things," said Aonuma. "But what I can tell you is that yes I have read some of the speculation, and some of it is right! That is all I can say at the moment."
]]> Zelda Theorizing River Zora http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102687-did-you-speculate-master-sword-also-aonuma-reads-what-fans-theorise.html Could you guys catch me up on some stuff? http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102684-could-you-guys-catch-me-up-on-some-stuff-new-post.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:47:23 GMT Hello all,

I used to theorize on these forums back in the day, about 2 to 3 years ago I guess. I wanted to start this basic thread concerning popular theories of today. I'll be a little honest, I am currently very lazy and am just wondering if I can get a little help with something.

I had several theories that weren't very accepted, which is fine, I'm just having trouble remembering why. Also, I just wanna check and see if certain ideas have evolved any over the years.

1. TMC > OoT:
This is wrong because of the fact that it takes place on an island and also because of the books in the library. Is that all? I'm just trying to paint a picture of priorities.

2. OoS/OoA in the CT:
This used to be a given because Twinrova is supposed to be dead in the AT, but I am seeing it placed there in a lot of people's timelines. Is there other information that outweighs Twinrova's supposed death?

3. Twilight Mirror and Dark Mirror (FSA) being the same:
I was thinking this was also a given because of the similarities, but I'm seeing FSA come up after TP in some timelines. Again, I'm not trying to discredit timelines, I'm just trying to find out if there is information that I'm missing.

4. For this one, I just wanna ask what people's thoughts are on the relationships between the Twili, the Shiekah, The Dark Tribe in the mirror (FSA), and the Hexing Tribe (MM).

EDIT:
Also...

5. Shouldn't ALttP come after FSA at some point due to the trident thing? I'm still new to the concept of there being more than one Ganon.

My understanding is that FSA is supposedly the first game with the new Ganon, and ALttP is supposedly that same Ganon? Is this the common belief?

Thanks for your help. If I remember any other questions I might post them in this thread, unless it's a big question, then I'll make a specific one. ]]> Zelda Theorizing Froboy http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102684-could-you-guys-catch-me-up-on-some-stuff.html ZELDA WINDWAKER ISLAND FOUND IN OCARINA OF TIME http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102683-zelda-windwaker-island-found-in-ocarina-of-time-new-post.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:19:53 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px16AN6GGnY I discovered this while being stuck in Gerudu Valley- Could it be Forest Haven from Wind Waker? Or could it not. But you can clearly see the nintendo figurine thing. And is that the evil tree or the good one?!? Confuzzling~ So the OOT Deku Sprout moved... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px16AN6GGnY

I discovered this while being stuck in Gerudu Valley- Could it be Forest Haven from Wind Waker? Or could it not. But you can clearly see the nintendo figurine thing. And is that the evil tree or the good one?!? Confuzzling~ So the OOT Deku Sprout moved to a Desert!?!

THIS COULD ALTER THE TIMELINE? ]]> Zelda Theorizing Pringles http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102683-zelda-windwaker-island-found-in-ocarina-of-time.html a Ancient Stone Tablets thread once again! http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102670-a-ancient-stone-tablets-thread-once-again-new-post.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:34:16 GMT Alright, one of the reasons why people don't consider AST canon is because they make the argument that if the goddesses can just take another hero from another world to save Hyrule then it contradicts the backstory of Wind Waker. Look at this quote:
Quote:
Zelda:
No, we have no time. There is something I have to say
before the youth leaves our world and goes home.
On Death Mountain I felt... I felt Ganon’s presence.
I know the Evil King Ganon was sealed by Link, the Hero.
His body was sealed, but his malicious essence could not be sealed.
It was through this evil energy's doing that the youth was pulled into our world.
If the youth’s power had been taken by Ganon,
Hyrule would have fallen into deep darkness.
I truly thank you.
Because of your wisdom, courage, and power,
I am sure the future will be bright.
The time for us to part is fast approaching.
It was not the goddesses who brought the Hero of Light to Hyrule, it was the spirit of Ganon, he lured this Hero of Light into where he was sealed at the end of Alttp (So he was not actually killed, that helps the timeline doesn't it?) in order to absorb his power and resurect himself.

Also this game proves that LA is right after Alttp because in the game it says Link is lost in a dream and can't wake up.

There is of course the problem with the "master sword sleeping forever" but other zelda games contradict that anyways, but it's still a mystery that needs to be solved, and I have not solution here.

Also, the place where Ganon is sealed cannot possibly be the Dark World, for that was destroyed at the end of Alttp, no wait it wasn't destroyed it went back to being the Sacred Realm. So if Ganon's spirit is in the Sacred Realm, is it not possible he's built himself another tower in the 6 years since Alttp ended? In AST we only see Ganon's tower, so it's quite possible that the rest of the Sacred Realm is not corrupted nor is it a "Dark World" or a dark copy of Hyrule.

Just some interesting thoughts I had in the matter, what do you think? ]]> Zelda Theorizing Labrynian Rebel http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102670-a-ancient-stone-tablets-thread-once-again.html Force http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102664-force-new-post.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:06:21 GMT Light Force > Force Gems > Sand of Hours > Life Force ---Quote--- As you know, every creature in this world possesses a sacred power. This power is called life force.]]> Triforce > Light Force > Force Gems > Sand of Hours > Life Force

Quote:
As you know, every
creature in this world
possesses a sacred power.
This power is called life
force.

The Sand of Hours is a
physical manifestation of
that power.
Quote:
The sand inside the
Phantom Hourglass is called
the Sand of Hours.
The beast you defeated in
the Temple of Fire held
some grains of it.
It is said to be made of
Force Gems of the great
spirit, the Ocean King.
Comments, disagreements? ]]> Zelda Theorizing Cukeman http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102664-force.html Just to remind you all what the creators say. http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102640-just-to-remind-you-all-what-the-creators-say-new-post.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:53:57 GMT The developers do know what they're doing. They do have their own timeline- the correct timeline. It is split.

2004
Quote:
Aonuma: To me storyline is important, and as producer, I am going to be going through, and trying to bring all of these stories together, and kind of make them a little bit more clear. Unfortunately, we just haven’t done that yet.
Just to remind you the split is fact.

2002 interview 1

Quote:
Question: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall timeline of the Legend of Zelda?
Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.
Mr. Aonuma: There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.
2002 interview 2

Quote:
Question: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.
2006 interview 3
Quote:
Question: When does Twilight Princess take place?
Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.
Question: And the Wind Waker?
Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...
Just a reminder.

Perhaps a culture shock to those who were under the impression they were going against 'some random worker who said one thing once off the top of his head which meant nothing'. ]]> Zelda Theorizing River Zora http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102640-just-to-remind-you-all-what-the-creators-say.html Theorizing about the NES games and the Child Timeline. http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102628-theorizing-about-the-nes-games-and-the-child-timeline-new-post.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:26:06 GMT The NES Zelda games are the vaguest plot wise, which makes the hardest to definitively theorize about but the easiest to do anything you want within your imagination.

I'm going to discuss 2 points of interest in this topic, both had been ones I'd made topics on before, but now I want to discuss them again and we apparently aren't allowed to revive old thread, but that's alright, this time I"m addressing both in 1 thread.

But first I want to address that if your a splitter (Which I'm not) then both these would place the NES games after the child ending (To me there is no Adult ending, that's the only 1). Now most Splitters seem to feel knowledge of the sages Can only appear following the Adult ending (And since AoL has towns named after the sages, that implies they have memory of them, thou how detailed or precise is unknown), however even thou the HoT's adult adventures ceased to have technically happened, Link still remembered them and it is heavily implied he shared them with Zelda.

My Timeline in my Sig is not one I believe in firmly enough to defend the finer points of yet, especially not the placement of the Capcom games or Four Swords which I'm hesitant to consider Canon at all.

Issue 1, The Sleeping Zelda's Identity.

The NES Link is the only 1 to actually encounter 2 Zeldas, the 2nd of which is clearly stated as being the original Zelda. Which base don the nearly unanimous agreement that OoT is the first Game chronological would heavily imply that this is the Same Zelda form that game.

The apparent differences in appearance don't mean much, in Video Games like in Comics that really expresses nothing more the artistic style of the designer, another example of this would be the WW's stature of the HoT actually looks more like ALTTP's Link.

Further confirmation of this I feel comes from the Deku Sprout's story to Link about the King uniting Hyrule does sound basically the same as the story about the Sleeping Zelda's father from AoL's instruction Manual.

The reason this would have the Child Ending I feel is that it's implied the Sleeping Zelda is 16, while the Adult Ending Timeline would begin with her already 17. Plus the AoL's back story really doesn't mention Hyrule being ruled by Ganondorf for 7 years.

Issue 2: Where is The Original Link from?

While in all other Zelda generation Link is pretty clearly indigenous to Hyrule, the Original NES Zelda's Link is clearly stating and coming to Hyrule form some other land unnamed land (And no I won't consider what the Cartoon or Comics say about that Land canon).

This is typical of classic Fantasy Games like the original Finale Fantasy, having the character play be alien to land he's saving helps the player imagine himself as the hero(s) as we are obviously alien to it as well. But latter as the storylines of games became more detailed it became more necessary for the hero to have a back story in the world the story is set in.

The implication this has on Zelda theorizing is that every Link must be a descendant of the original Hero of Time in some way, so this Link not even being form Hyrule presents a problem with that....Unless that land was......

Termina!!!!!

Now this brings allot of other MM relate issues into play, like whether or not Link ever returned to Hyrule.

The Hero Definitely did Return to Hyrule and start with Malon a family that would produce first Twilight Princess Link (Who has inherited Epona's descendant and Epona's Song) and eventually the majority of other Links.

So if my theory is correct which i feel while corroborating evidence is most likely, then that implies the HoT engaging in some morally questionable behavior Zelda fans might not be comfortable with. Bigamy.

I however think It's a fascinating possibility, that Link might have once he was an adult traversed back and forth between Hyrule and Temrina starting families with both Malon and Romani, his career as an adventuer would make it easy for him to get away with it.

I"m considering writing some Fanfiction to explore that very possibility. I also have a cool Fan Fiction idea for a story exploring the nature of the Fierce Deity mask where Oni Link seduces Cremia, and also makes a move on Anju and then beats the crap out of Kafei. As you may have noticed my taste in Zelda fanfiction Can pretty Dark.

Well that's enough rambling, what do you all think of my Ideas? Feel free to offer any input, I'm very open to constructive criticism. ]]> Zelda Theorizing JaredThaJa http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102628-theorizing-about-the-nes-games-and-the-child-timeline.html Dodongo: Ancient Guardian? http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102572-dodongo-ancient-guardian-new-post.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:09:13 GMT Here's a very simple theory I'd like to present: that Dodongo's Cavern used to house (or used to be?) the giant guardian of the Goron Race, whose name was Dodongo.

Consider the facts:
  • The three dungeons completed by child Link related to each of the three elemental races, that is, the three races possessing one of the spiritual stones
  • The first dungeon, the Great Deku Tree, is inside a giant living thing, which soon after dies.
  • The third dungeon, Lord Jabu-Jabu's Belly, is inside a giant living thing, which soon after dies from the cold (or possibly just leaves because of the cold)
  • Dodongo's Cavern possesses a giant spine and rib cage on the ceiling and has a large skull inside with a door in it, indicating that some huge creature(s) have lived and died there.
  • The Great Deku Tree is specifically referred to as guardian of the Kokiri
    Lord Jabu-Jabu is specifically referred to as the Zoras' guardian deity
    Dodongo's Cavern has since ancient times been a source of food, and therefore, can be considered the life source of the Gorons and most likely location for a Goron deity.
  • The Great Deku Tree, guardian of the Kokiri, does not have a personal name; his name is just the name of his species (Deku Tree). Lord Jabu-Jabu's name's meaning is unknown, but could possibly also be a reference to its species (a Jabu-Jabu?). Dodongo is certainly a reference to a species, so if the ancient guardian of the Gorons was named Dodongo, this name would fit in perfectly with the other two.
  • The name Dodongo's Cavern is also in the singular plural. If the cavern's name referred to the multiple small dodongos that live inside, it would have been instead named Dodongos' Cavern with the apostrophe after the 's'.

So, does it seem possible to anyone else that the giant rib cage or skull in the cavern represent the remains of a great lost guardian Dodongo who protected the Gorons or perhaps created the cavern as a food source for them? ]]> Zelda Theorizing MajorasWrath1 http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102572-dodongo-ancient-guardian.html <![CDATA[Vaati's timeline theory.]]> http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102569-vaatis-timeline-theory-new-post.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:40:02 GMT uh... yeah Im a linearist. :3 *puts up flame sheild. first heres the basic layout. Oot, MM, Alttp, LA. - (TP) - TLoz, AoL, Oox. - (TP) - WW, PH, ST. and the 4Swords Series: MC, FS, FSA. now that we have the layout down, heres my explination: uh... yeah Im a linearist. :3
*puts up flame sheild.

first heres the basic layout.
Oot, MM, Alttp, LA. - (TP) - TLoz, AoL, Oox. - (TP) - WW, PH, ST.
and the 4Swords Series: MC, FS, FSA.

now that we have the layout down, heres my explination:


The first link in my timeline goes through four adventures.
The Hero of time (Link I): Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, A Link To The Past, Link's Awekening.

the hero of time washes ashore a land known as "calatia" and starts a life there.
he has a son named Arn, who in turn has a son named Link. (Enter Link II)

(Perhaps TP could happen in the meantime?)

Fascinated with his grandfather's stories, Link II travels to the land of hyrule.
but when he gets there he comes across an old woman named Impa under attack by some moblins.

The Legend of Zelda, Adventure of Link, The Oracle games (My perfered order is Ages then Seasons, with the ganon ending.)

Link III: Twilight princess. Note: This game is a bit loose in my timeline, as it can happen in the timeframe between the hero of time and Link II.
I'd like it to be placed here, but it would honestly make more sense if it was placed elsewhere.

back to solid now,
The Hero of Winds (Link IV): Wind Waker, Phantom hourglass, (Spirit tracks) im not sure if the link in spirit tracks is Links Son as of yet but it sure seems like it, which would make him "Link V"

Q&A:

Q: Why isnt Four swords in your timeline?
A: because I believe that the games are part of a seperate zelda series. or Sub-Series if you will.
though a popular theory I hear is that they take place between PH and ST. which makes some sense. charachter wise anyway.
especially In FSA, where yrule is entirely surrounded by water (see the world map.)

Q: why dont you include the TV series or CD-i games?
A: Because I'm not A MORON.

Q: Where did you get your info?
A: General info mostly, also the instruction booklets from the games and from myiamoto's mouth. Any screw ups I hope can be hammered out through use of this topic.



Please comment and ask questions so I can explain my timeline further.
there was also something about the map I was meaning to get.... ]]> Zelda Theorizing Vaati227 http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102569-vaatis-timeline-theory.html Linearism is Alive and Well http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102531-linearism-is-alive-and-well-new-post.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:53:05 GMT Zelda timeline veteran and former Zelda Blog webmaster The Missing Link has returned to tell you that you're all wrong using his unrelenting logic. ;P

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/article...live-and-well/ ]]> Zelda Theorizing Cody http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102531-linearism-is-alive-and-well.html Between OoT and Spirit Tracks: A study of the time frame inbetween. http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102523-between-oot-and-spirit-tracks-a-study-of-the-time-frame-inbetween-new-post.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:49:24 GMT *THE NUMBER OF YEARS BETWEEN OCARINA OF TIME AND SPIRIT TRACKS * (For the sake of time, each character will have a child at the midium age of 20 years of age. In other words: each generation has the next generation at the age of 20) A few people claim that the time period (stated above) is...
THE NUMBER OF YEARS BETWEEN OCARINA OF TIME AND SPIRIT TRACKS
(For the sake of time, each character will have a child at the midium age of 20 years of age. In other words: each generation has the next generation at the age of 20)


A few people claim that the time period (stated above) is distributed as such:




This, as I expect most of you noticed, is ridiculous. Yet, i cant undestand why people (just a few, but a bothersome few) keep stating that the number of years in the period is 184 years (assuming Tetra is 18 at the end of PH).

I will use simple analysis to prove that the time period should be at least 300 years.

Let us Start with the end of OoT. We need to insert at least 2 generations between OoT zelda and Daphnes.



it would take at least 3 generations for OoT's tale to become "legend", as well, it says "tale was passed down through generations", which states it passed through more than one. Lets make each of these "generations" have a chiled at age of 20.......... so from OoT Ending to Daphnes birth we have a minimum of 61 years.

Now, we assume his daughter zelda was born when he (Daphnes) was 30, making her 10 and him 40 when hyrule flooded. Now i made sure Daphnes was at least 40 when hyrule flooded because of his look in the portrait in Hyrule castle (tWW-made pre-flood). So his daughter escaped to higher ground and had bore a child at the age of 20. Making the first royal child born over the seas 111 years after the ending of OoT.

Ok, so now we go into the Great Sea. The windwaker intro states that the memory of hyrule vanished "with the wind's breath"......so, again, we believe that there were a minimum of 2 generations between Daphnes' grandchild and Tetra's mother. To illustrate better i will lay match Link's Family tree to Tetra's by age.

Link's Great-Grandparent-----Tetra's Great-Grandparents(1)
Link's Grandmother-----------------Tetra's Grandparents(2)
Link' Parents------------------------------Tetra's mother
Link----------------------------------------------Tetra


Link's grandmother has no Knowledge of Hyrule, so it is highly probable that her parents were NOT born in hyrule. Meaning, Tetra's were not as well. Thus, creating 2 generations between Daphnes's grandchild and Tetra's mother. that would bring the year count from OoT (assuming that each generation has the next generation at the age of 20) to 171. Yes, that means that Tetra's mother was born a minimum of 171 years after the ending of OoT.

Now let us push a little further, Tetra is then born 20 years later.......(191 after OoT)....... I will assume tetra is 18 at the end of PH (209 years after OoT).......So Spirit Tracks would take 100 years after that...... making the overall time between OoT and Spirit tracks a minimum of 309 Years

Ok, so i say, THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF TIME BETWEEN OOT AND SPIRIT TRACKS HAS TO BE 309 YEARS.


And here's a little something by ~BeagleTsuin over at DeviantArt that might warm you to the idea :P

]]> Zelda Theorizing Mr_Zora_Decu http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102523-between-oot-and-spirit-tracks-a-study-of-the-time-frame-inbetween.html What is Termina, Oot Hyrule and TP Hyrule were all the same land? http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102518-what-is-termina-oot-hyrule-and-tp-hyrule-were-all-the-same-land-new-post.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:24:20 GMT Another thread got me thinking about Hyrules geography, I think they could all theoretically be linked to eachother. The TP map had to be rotated so north was east, but that made it so Zoras domain, death mountain and old Kakariko villages all fit together perfectly. Assuming that there are more... Another thread got me thinking about Hyrules geography, I think they could all theoretically be linked to eachother. The TP map had to be rotated so north was east, but that made it so Zoras domain, death mountain and old Kakariko villages all fit together perfectly. Assuming that there are more mountains to the north, New Kakariko and the Goron mines (which would lead to deaht mountain proper) could fit. Lake hylia fits and the way that the desert colossus' back syncs up with the stone towers seems like it was meant to be. Also, the forest to the south in Termina is unlabelled and empty which means it could be Ordon. I think old hyrule and new hyrule were secluded from eachother by mountains but canyons were blasted out in the TP era, hence all of the paths in the TP map. One final link is the poisened purple water in both ordon and woodfall, which would be geographic neighbours.
Keep in mind this is just a dumb theory and i doubt the devs ever thought that far ahead but its cool. I whipped up some terribly made MSpaint maps lool
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7...nalabelled.png
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1...minalinked.png ]]> Zelda Theorizing Cayetgods http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102518-what-is-termina-oot-hyrule-and-tp-hyrule-were-all-the-same-land.html What is Termina, Oot Hyrule and TP Hyrule were all the same land? http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102517-what-is-termina-oot-hyrule-and-tp-hyrule-were-all-the-same-land-new-post.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:23:39 GMT Another thread got me thinking about Hyrules geography, I think they could all theoretically be linked to eachother. The TP map had to be rotated so north was east, but that made it so Zoras domain, death mountain and old Kakariko villages all fit together perfectly. Assuming that there are more... Another thread got me thinking about Hyrules geography, I think they could all theoretically be linked to eachother. The TP map had to be rotated so north was east, but that made it so Zoras domain, death mountain and old Kakariko villages all fit together perfectly. Assuming that there are more mountains to the north, New Kakariko and the Goron mines (which would lead to deaht mountain proper) could fit. Lake hylia fits and the way that the desert colossus' back syncs up with the stone towers seems like it was meant to be. Also, the forest to the south in Termina is unlabelled and empty which means it could be Ordon. I think old hyrule and new hyrule were secluded from eachother by mountains but canyons were blasted out in the TP era, hence all of the paths in the TP map. One final link is the poisened purple water in both ordon and woodfall, which would be geographic neighbours.
Keep in mind this is just a dumb theory and i doubt the devs ever thought that far ahead but its cool. I whipped up some terribly made MSpaint maps lool
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1...minalinked.png
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7...nalabelled.png ]]> Zelda Theorizing Cayetgods http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102517-what-is-termina-oot-hyrule-and-tp-hyrule-were-all-the-same-land.html <![CDATA[PH's Double Whammy (spoilers)]]> http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102515-phs-double-whammy-spoilers-new-post.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:00:59 GMT I just played through PH for the first time...
(I know, I know, everyone played this game before I did)
...now I've completed all the Zeldas except for LCT and ST.

This is a timeline thread about PH, but it's also a theory thread.

At first I thought that the PH map was an area adjacent to the WW map.
Lots of connections to other Zelda games started popping up in my mind
as I played through the game:

- evil eye symbol
- Triforce
- Force Gems
- Red & Blue enemies (like LoZ)
- LoZ enemies (Pols Voice, Gleeok)
- AoL enemies (walking River Zoras)
- ALttP enemies (bone-throwing jumping Stalfos, flip-over hammer turtles, walking River Zoras)
- Maze Island (reminds one of AoL)
- Goron Island (path to NE corner resembling AoL's Darunia Town area)

etc., etc.

The game was starting to look like an attempt to connect WW to LoZ/AoL
and possibly ALttP. Goron Island would've shown where the Gorons were
during WW, and why they aren't in NES/SNES Hyrule. The pure metals could've
been tied to the Spiritual Stones and/or the elements seen in The Minish Cap.
And the Cobble Kingdom looked like an interesting new land (with obvious
Egyptian influences). And this was the only Zelda game to have both land and
sea-dwelling Octoroks (unless you count OoT's Big Octo), suggesting an evolution
of the species in progress.

But then came the twist. PH doesn't take place on the Great Sea. Link's
adventure plays out in "the world of the Ocean King".

Quote:
The time for you to return
to your world is near...

The door to your world is
about to open.

We are inhabitants of this world.
...
the world of the Ocean King!
So this is another dimension/realm/thingamajig...

Since we aren't exploring the Great Sea in PH, most of the timeline
references in this game can't be taken seriously at all.

- The world of the Ocean King -

So what is "the world of the Ocean King"?
I think that this other realm/dimension has a dual nature.

1 - A Spiritual Realm

This seems to be a realm of the spirits, in my opinion. I think that the
Ocean King and the other guardian spirits are watching over the Great Sea
from this realm of spirit beings. Link and Tetra must return to the physical
realm of mortals.

This brings up a quote that I found rather bizarre:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolene to (Linebeck)
Fiend! It's been 100 years
since our paths last
crossed...
Jolene and Linebeck do NOT look like they are over 1oo years old.
I think that as long as one is in 'the world of the Ocean King', they will not age.
When Link and Tetra returned to the Great Sea, only ten minutes had passed
from the perspective of the pirates, so maybe a hundred years in 'the world of
the Ocean King' may only equal a year or two on the Great Sea.

I can't say for sure whether Jolene originates from the Great Sea or 'the world
of the Ocean King'. But I am thinking that both Jolene and Linebeck got sucked
into the Ocean King's world, and have been there significantly longer than PH Link.
It is thanks to PH Link that Linebeck finally returns to the Great Sea IMO.
I kind of think Jolene returned to the Great Sea too, but I have no way of knowing
for certain.

I also think that 'the world of the Ocean King' may be a sort of an afterlife,
or a limbo, where people's spirits go when they die. Bellum seems to be an
amalgam of all the evil spirits, while the NPCs could conceivably be spirits
of good people in some sort of purgatory, waiting for the afterlife.

Linebeck has already been compared to Capt. Jack Sparrow in the Pirates of the
Caribbean films. So why not extend this comparison to Jack Sparrow's journey
through the afterlife as well?

On a side note having the extremes of good and evil on an ocean being embodied
by the ancient conflict between sperm whales and giant squids was pretty darned
cool, I think. With the Pirates of the Caribbean theme in mind, Bellum could even
be compared to the Kraken.

2 - A Parallel Realm

'The world of the Ocean King' seems to be a realm of parallels as well.
Bellum parallels Vaati with his evil eye(s). I believe that the evil eye symbol
in other Zelda games applies to Vaati, while in PH it applies to Bellum.

The Cobble Kingdom is sometimes thought of as a new kingdom we might
see again. However I believe that the Cobble Kingdom is merely a parallel
to the Kingdom of Hyrule in Link's world. A kingdom that sunk? Four
Guardian Knights? Does this not sound like Hyrule's fate at the end of
the Wind Waker? Does this not sound like the four Knights of Hyrule in FSA? :arch:

Quote:
This is where the dead of
the Cobble Kingdom, long
ago fallen, lay at rest.
I am one of four knights
chosen by the king.
Does the Phantom Sword not look like the Master Sword?



The Phantom Sword contains a yellow Hourglass in place of the Master Sword's
yellow gem. I believe the Phantom Sword in the Ocean King's realm is merely
a parallel to the Master Sword in the Great Sea. The pure metals would naturally
repel evil, since evil is not pure.

The Maze Island of AoL may have nothing to do with PH, other than that PH
has an island which parallels the one in AoL. I am still thinking that AoL is
likely not post-WW since I am hoping we won't see Ganon after WW, AoL
is not New Hyrule in my opinion, and I don't think the Sage names survived
the flood. In a post-WW AoL, they wouldn't know squat about the Sages in
my opinion.

Which brings us to the Sage graves in PH. I think that these are not the OoT
Sages, rather they are parallel Sages that only existed in 'the world of the Ocean King'.

Perhaps all of these parallels and similarities exist mainly to comfort the spirits
in transition from limbo to the afterlife by placing them in familiar surroundings.

- Link's Awakening -

The similarity of PH's ending to LA's ending must be noted at some point.
I take PH and LA as parallels on the AT and CT. The Ocean King =/= the
Wind Fish if you ask me. The Ocean King swims and has no wings. The Wind
Fish flies. The Ocean King lives in another realm/dimension which Link gets
sucked into. The Wind Fish's dream (combined with Link's dreams & memories)
creates an island in the real world which vanishes when he wakes up.

When PH Link returns to the Great Sea, the Ocean King will continue to live in
his realm. When LA Link awakens the Wind Fish exists in the same 'real world'
that Link came from originally. The Ocean King does not come to the Great Sea
with PH Link, and the Phantom Hourglass seems to have no power on the Great
Sea.

And I apologize for any old news in this post.
(I am new to PH) ]]> Zelda Theorizing Cukeman http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102515-phs-double-whammy-spoilers.html Another Minish Cap Connection http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102510-another-minish-cap-connection-new-post.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:49:15 GMT when u play ocarina in MC are you playing the song of soaring? Image: http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda10/Windcrests/MinishWoods.PNG Image: http://papercraft.wdfiles.com/local--resized-images/papercraft:owl-statue/done.jpg/small.jpg when u play ocarina in MC are you playing the song of soaring?


]]> Zelda Theorizing llll http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102510-another-minish-cap-connection.html The Minish Cap at the Beginning... (?) http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102492-the-minish-cap-at-the-beginning-new-post.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:22:56 GMT ... of the Adult Timeline! Whaaaa?!?!

Ok, theory: The MC takes place in the Pre-Flood Hyrule (but after the split).
Things in this theories favor:

[]Ganon does not return in this game.
[] ----

Things against it:

[]No Triforce.
[]The Four Swords Survival after the flood is unlikely.
[]A hero appearing between OoT and TWW.
[]The gnat hat/minish cap surviving the flood is unlikely.
[] ----

(That's all i can think of, Yay? Nay? Help?) ]]> Zelda Theorizing Ojlink9 http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/102492-the-minish-cap-at-the-beginning.html