[Discussion] TMC Placement Debate

[Sentient]

I thought I'd kick start a bit of activity here again with a good old-fashioned TMC debate. What I'd like to happen here is for everyone in the Bombers who believes TMC to be the first in the timeline to give me evidence to support this placement other than the hat arguement and the outdated Aonuma statement. Both of these I have shown to be very, very shaky evidence, and so I would like to hear some decent reasons as to why people place TMC first.

[Uncle Meat]

The problem with TMC's placement is that there isn't any concrete proof for any placement. To me this seems like yet another one of those problems that can only be answerred by common sense. This is simply because of the lack of storyline connectivity to other games.

We should ask ourselves these questions: Why would the developement team place it first? What purpose would this placement serve? Is this placement in any way apparent to the average player, who only has access to in-game material and the manual?

Personally I see only one reason for the dev. team to place the game first in the timeline. To get it out of the way. If the team had really wanted to place the game pre-OoT for storyline reasons, they could have easily dived into the storyline of OoT and make connections to the Fierce War, forging of the Master Sword, discovery of the Sacred Realm or any event preceding OoT. But they chose not to.

Instead they made a game that at the time of it's release had minimal storyline connectivity to existing Zelda games and featured new elements (Light Force, the Minish, Hero of Men) which were not given much background. All of this points to the fact that the developement team wanted to make a game that had no specific place in the timeline, which means that it's up to the player to either dismiss the game from the timeline or think of a personal placement.

But is there any reason why it shouldn't be first? We know that TMC must precede FS, but the amount of time between the titles is not specified in either game. Like I said before any evidence that we can dig up from the game itself is still debateable. For example the ocean seen from the Palace of Winds and the island that has been argued to to be TMC's Hyrule, can be countered with the landscape seen from the beanstalk and mountain tops. The latter two show Hyrule as a huge continent with mountains in the horisont. This would go against theory that TMC's Hyrule is only a small island in the Great Sea.



I personally think that TMC does not precede OoT. There are many reasons, some which Sentient has been kindly covered in his article. My reasons for this placement come from outside the game script:

• The Zelda team has kept the 2D and 3D games fairly separate so far, both graphically and story wise. TMC is somewhat an exception to this rule. The game is visually similar to TWW, PH and the other FS games. Some of the enemies and items are even depicted exactly the same in TWW and TMC.
  
• The only real connection between TMC and any other game is TMC - FS. This alone suggests that the games follow each other directly. This order cannot be disproven with in-game evidence and it is the only logical conclusion to the average player.
  
• There is no reason for the developers to place it first apart from keeping out of the way.

[Mr. Lexxi Aileron]

Before OoT: Well, quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with TMC being here. There's just absolutely no in-game evidence to that end. So, naturally, I decide against it.
After Adult OoT: There's also nothing wrong with this placement. With the obvious inclusion of TWW elements in TMC, one could postulate that a placement nearby TWW is more likely, which, if I may say so myself, seems to lend more to this than to the pre-OoT placement. Like the pre-OoT placement, though, there's still no real evidence.
After TWW/PH: Assuming the flood subsides (as almost every single Great Flood seems to do), this placement has no problems, and lines up with the TWW elements, like the post-Adult placement. But, again, no concrete storyline evidence. Too bad.
After MM: (See "Before OoT.")
After TP: (See "Before OoT.")
Other placements: " "

Personally, I prefer the second or third; of those two, the third, mostly for the sake of keeping the OoT-TWW continuity direct.