Music Chit-Chat Thread Track 02: Midnight City!

Originally Posted by AzraelBlack

Our music has been featured in the latest DC Shoes commercial!
The intro is from our song Words and the heavy part is the outro of our song The More We Struggle The More We Sink.


I'm so proud of this!

I don't remember if you've said, but is Consequences going to be self-released or did you guys get a label?

i dont thin its hard for atthegatescore to get signed even though deathcore kinda has taken over

atthegatescore?

Originally Posted by Tomcat_ha

i dont thin its hard for atthegatescore to get signed even though deathcore kinda has taken over

Are you referring to my band here? No one in my band listens to At The Gates.


Lunchbox*: We don't have a record label yet, just touring and promoters who work for us. When the album is completed we'll send it out to record labels to see if anyone wants to release it for us. If we don't get signed then we will release the album independently and see what happens (:

Originally Posted by AzraelBlack

Lunchbox*: We don't have a record label yet, just touring and promoters who work for us. When the album is completed we'll send it out to record labels to see if anyone wants to release it for us. If we don't get signed then we will release the album independently and see what happens (:

How did DC find it then?

The advertising agency which made the ad had a guy on the team who is a fan of ours.

That's awesome.

I think that commercial(?) should really help get your name out, and help your chances of getting signed.

Originally Posted by AzraelBlack

The advertising agency which made the ad had a guy on the team who is a fan of ours.

Well done on the DC shoes commercial Azrael!

Also, to anyone in this thread talking about Isis: I recommend Neurosis as well. If you haven't already listened and are big fans of Isis, it's similarly sludgy and doomy. That description might not be correct but I am certainly fans of both.

Originally Posted by AzraelBlack

Are you referring to my band here? No one in my band listens to At The Gates.

but you still make atthegatescore. At least based on that commercial.

Originally Posted by Tomcat_ha

but you still make atthegatescore. At least based on that commercial.

EXPLAIN THIS CONCEPT PLEEEEAAAASE

its simple. Atthegatescore is metalcore that takes from the band at the gates. To be specific the last at the gates album slaughter of the soul. Just listen for yourself:

Uh. I doubt any band takes from one single artist as their inspiration or whatever.

Sounds like an extremely limiting genre that only At the Gates and a tribute band of At the Gates would fall into.

Aside from some of the high screams (which we do not use exclusively), we don't sound anything like those two songs you just referenced.


Considering I wrote a large part of the music featured in that ad, I don't think we sound anything like them aside from some of the highs.

man, I don't really get the metal culture. It just feels so homogeneous to me. Any given "metal" song I've heard or seen a video of has pretty much all of the following:

-Lots of guys with long hair (rarely any women that aren't strung up, nailed to something, or alive)
-Predominant use of the color black
-Really pointy, distorted guitars
-Vocals primarily utilizing screams or guttural sounds, rarely ever any "singing"
-Fast, upbeat, hard-hitting, deep-sounding drums
-really quick tempo
-Lots of power chords with superfastarpeggio break-downs mixed in seemingly randomly
-An occasional solo

I know there's a fair bit of "variety" in the genre but it seems that it's only something thrown in quickly for a bit of contrast. But the entire genre just feels so focused on instant-gratification, masculinity, and anger to me. Some of it is pretty good, but the only real entity I've heard that does something different and that identifies with that genre and that's come out of the past 10 or 15 years is Opeth. With their suuuuper melodic, chilled, laid-back style and random bits of contrast, they're kinda catchy.

That's not to say it doesn't take an extraordinary amount of talent to do what they do, I just don't really understand why those stylistic elements are chosen.

That's great that your band got some music on a commercial, Azrael, that's really cool. Hope someone signs you guys eventually.

And I don't know if anyone cares, but this song in my opinion is too good to not to share. Protest the Hero just released the first track, "C'est La Vie", off of their new album Scurrilous coming out in March.



I think it's a pretty neat track.

Originally Posted by AzraelBlack

Aside from some of the high screams (which we do not use exclusively), we don't sound anything like those two songs you just referenced.


Considering I wrote a large part of the music featured in that ad, I don't think we sound anything like them aside from some of the highs.

Your riffs are definitely at the gates like. Ofcourse it doesnt sound exactly the same, that album was released 15 years ago. However when i listen to third wave metalcore that at the gates album keeps op popping up every time and this happens with your band as well.

The drums are notably different sure but that for me is kinda amusing because the drumming in those at the gates songs is heavily influenced by d-beat and crust punk. You third wave metalcore tends to take away that and replace it with 2nd wave metalcore drumming.

Originally Posted by Andy

I know there's a fair bit of "variety" in the genre but it seems that it's only something thrown in quickly for a bit of contrast. But the entire genre just feels so focused on instant-gratification, masculinity, and anger to me. Some of it is pretty good, but the only real entity I've heard that does something different and that identifies with that genre and that's come out of the past 10 or 15 years is Opeth. With their suuuuper melodic, chilled, laid-back style and random bits of contrast, they're kinda catchy.

There is metal that is for instant gratification and there is metal that is deeper than the deepest lake on earth. Neither is better than each other.

I used to be an Opeth fanboy but eventually discovered death metal through them and found out that Opeth while being different is not deeper than the average death metal band. Their prog rock breaks are actually rather predictable, They arent unusually melodic either. However i still like all the albums up to and including damnation. The last 2 albums just lack something.

That said You are now lumping every metal band ever on 1 pile. While metal can be rather powerful there are a lot of intricacies and details in most subgenres. Often what is the case with people with ears untrained for metal is that these details go unnoticed. I personally have 7 years of listening experience to metal and still quite often i notice new details in songs i've been listening to for ages and no this is not always technicality related. Bands like moonsorrow have more stuff going on at any single time than most bands have on a full album.

I'm really not a fan of the current obsession labels seem to have with -core bands these days. I know it's the in thing, but it's just frustrating to see young kids like Azrael - nothing at all against you guys, I think what you're doing is cool - getting favoured over far more mature, innovative, and (at least in my opinion) better artists who have been working at it for 10+ years. I guess that's the nature of trends, but still, it's hard to look at a band like Slough Feg, Lost Soul, Kekal, or Wayd and wonder "why aren't these guys more popular?"

Originally Posted by Andy

man, I don't really get the metal culture. It just feels so homogeneous to me. Any given "metal" song I've heard or seen a video of has pretty much all of the following:

-Lots of guys with long hair (rarely any women that aren't strung up, nailed to something, or alive)
-Predominant use of the color black
-Really pointy, distorted guitars
-Vocals primarily utilizing screams or guttural sounds, rarely ever any "singing"
-Fast, upbeat, hard-hitting, deep-sounding drums
-really quick tempo
-Lots of power chords with superfastarpeggio break-downs mixed in seemingly randomly
-An occasional solo

I know there's a fair bit of "variety" in the genre but it seems that it's only something thrown in quickly for a bit of contrast. But the entire genre just feels so focused on instant-gratification, masculinity, and anger to me. Some of it is pretty good, but the only real entity I've heard that does something different and that identifies with that genre and that's come out of the past 10 or 15 years is Opeth. With their suuuuper melodic, chilled, laid-back style and random bits of contrast, they're kinda catchy.

That's not to say it doesn't take an extraordinary amount of talent to do what they do, I just don't really understand why those stylistic elements are chosen.

Let's respond to these, one by one. Yaay!

• There are plenty of women in metal, but the genre is primarily dominated by men. There are definitely more female metal fans, especially in Europe. I can't say with certainty why this is the case, but my guess is that the culture is more accepting towards men, women have few role models to find in metal, and women, broadly, aren't socialised into rock music as much as men to begin with.
• Why do so many country artists wear ten-gallon hats and leather boots with spurs? Why do so many rap groups wear urban wear, loose-fitting jeans and flashy jewelry? Why do so many indie bands wear cardigans, crocheted hats and patchy beards? It's simply the style and fashion of the genre. For the record, metal actually has quite a bit of variety in its fashion - everything from leather and spikes, to Victorian/Goth fashion, to "stoner" type casual wear, to just "regular" clothing. What you've seen is an extremely limited slice. The only somewhat universal thing among metal bands and fans is long hair, and that's still really not a rule.
• Why do I see so many hollow-body guitars in jazz? Why do I see so many steel guitars in country? Why do I see so many jumbo-sized acoustic guitars in folk? It goes in line with the style of the genre and the tastes of the musicians involved. Many guitars are marketed towards the metal community, and some metal bands elect to use them, either due to their looks, their tone, etc. Plenty of metal bands also just use standard guitars like Les Pauls, and even Stratocasters at times (though humbucker pickups are usually preferred because of their thicker tone and noise canceling effect).
• Why are so many funk and R&B singers black, and why do they have such full, powerful voices? Why do so many smooth jazz singers sound like Frank Sinatra? Why do so many rappers these days use Autotune? Same old answer, it's simply a mark of the genre. There is actually a huge amount of variety in terms of delivery within harsh vocal styles, the subtleties of which aren't apparent to outsiders, the same as pretty much every other genre of music. To some degree, metal genres are defined by their modes of vocal delivery, just as this also defines other styles of music.
• Drum arrangement, style and tone all vary massively from band to band, album to album and genre to genre. While certain styles of drumming are pretty standard for different types of metal (i.e. d-beat for Swedish death metal, blastbeats for black metal), this sort of thing really isn't fixed in stone. And, once again, you can make the same claim about pop (everything in 4/4, 120 bpm), rap (same old drum machine plus samples), blues (shuffle!), etc. You'd be wrong on every count. The tiny amount of music you've heard is not indicative of the entire metal world, or even a relatively small portion of it.
• Plenty of metal is slow. Doom metal is pretty much built around being slow, atmospheric black metal especially (Leviathan, Burzum) is often quite slow, drone metal (SunnO)))) is pretty much designed to be as slow as possible, there's plenty of slow-paced songs and ballads within more traditional forms of metal... need I go on?
• Most metal uses power chords, but then, so does most pop music, rock music, and they have their place in jazz and blues as well. The main reason power chords are more common in metal is because heavy amounts of distortion, due to feedback and whatnot, make it hard to hear the more subtle differences between chords; power chords cut through that more easily than any other type of chord. As a result, metal tends to actually rely more on harmonised guitar parts. Of course, plenty of bands also resort to other chords, very often including dissonant chords and atonal progressions that wouldn't work in other genres of music. As for your comment... I'm not sure what an "arpeggio breakdown" is, but not all metal resorts to using arpeggios and breakdowns, and breakdowns can actually vary by a pretty damn wide margin. More commonly, you'll hear little trills, fills and scales being played to punctuate the chord melodies being played, but this isn't at all universal and mostly comes from the influence of old-fashioned blues and hard rock on metal.
• Some metal has tons of solos; Slough Feg, for instance, often have multiple solos per song, sometimes even with the solo making up the majority of the song. Other metal has no solos at all, often common in brutal and technical death metal, as well as black metal. Most commonly in heavy metal, power metal, thrash, and other more traditional genres, one or two solos per song is standard, usually coming about 2/3 through the song, and sometimes before or after the first verse as well.

In any case, I think what we've all learned here today is: don't generalise and make claims about stuff that you don't really know much about. Thanks!

I talked about one genre lately; just because I didn't mention my distaste for auto-tune, the yodel-ing model of vocals found in country, or steel guitars doesn't mean I don't know damn well about them.

I actually find contemporary country, pop, the vast majority of all rock, and in general the stuff on the radio far more distasteful, homogeneous, disgusting, and predictable than metal....

Let's break this down here line by line.

Originally Posted by Andy

-Lots of guys with long hair (rarely any women that aren't strung up, nailed to something, or alive)
-Predominant use of the color black
-Really pointy, distorted guitars
-Vocals primarily utilizing screams or guttural sounds, rarely ever any "singing"
-Fast, upbeat, hard-hitting, deep-sounding drums
-really quick tempo
-Lots of power chords with superfastarpeggio break-downs mixed in seemingly randomly
-An occasional solo

I know there's a fair bit of "variety" in the genre but it seems that it's only something thrown in quickly for a bit of contrast. But the entire genre just feels so focused on instant-gratification, masculinity, and anger to me. Some of it is pretty good, but the only real entity I've heard that does something different and that identifies with that genre and that's come out of the past 10 or 15 years is Opeth. With their suuuuper melodic, chilled, laid-back style and random bits of contrast, they're kinda catchy.

That's not to say it doesn't take an extraordinary amount of talent to do what they do, I just don't really understand why those stylistic elements are chosen.

I'd like to redirect you to the above language that has been bolded perhaps for easier note: please examine the lack of solidity in the claims, the subjectivity of it, the general lack of claims. I did that on purpose because

Originally Posted by eribear

you don't really know much about

I should have added this little qualifier to begin with though; my bad:
my ears aren't trained to like metal at all. I don't really actively train my ears to like anything, I just kinda take its surface value and aesthetics and if I like that I listen to it more. I only really examine the merit of the construction and the finer aspects if I've listened to it say 15-30 times.

But yeah, about the several other genres you mentioned I really don't like them too, I just have never noticed a big hardcore active following of them like there is with metal.

EDIT: also I was trying to mention, especially with the conclusive sentence at the end, that I didn't really know much about why metal was the way it was, it wasn't necessarily a statement of detest or detracting from the value of it, I was merely noting "hey this stuff doesn't add up to me"

I can't really say why metal is the way it is, definitely. As far as fashion goes, it has its roots in punk, rock and blues, as well as biker culture, so a lot of the dress from those (leather jackets, long hair) comes from those. Interestingly, Judas Priest also contributed quite a bit; their frontman Rob Halford was pretty actively involved in gay club culture, and his fashion sense rubbed off on a lot of other metal bands.

As for metal typically focusing on "darker" themes, that's assumedly an extension of a lot of the punk music themes of the 70s and 80s, which were generally pretty rebellious and aggressive, due to the genuine political sentiment of many of the people involved. More abrasive and aggressive styles of music are also going to undoubtedly attract people who themselves are angry, pissed off at the world, etc., and many genres use music as a way to transmit emotion (especially black metal). Others, like death metal, focused on a lot of horror movie aesthetics mostly for campy fun and shock value (a lot of old Swedish death metal, Cannibal Corpse, etc.). After decades of evolution, many groups still focus on these sorts of things, but many others have moved on, including a lot of the original pioneers. Bands cover all sorts of themes, from politics, to life, to emotion, to fantasy, to religion, to mythology, to quantum mechanics.

Not all metal is angry music, of course. Harsh vocals and distorted guitars aren't necessarily angry; usually the emotional and aesthetic qualities are subtler than that, and come with a familiarity of metal's past and unique musical qualities. For example, Vintersorg uses harsh vocals, but it's far more upbeat and fantastical than it is aggressive, drawing heavily from Scandinavian folk music and myth, while Immolation's low-pitched, droning vocals are meant to convey bleakness rather than anger or rage.

I feel truly sorry for people who can't "get" this!

YouTube - Albany YEM -- re-edit -- 12.09.95