Spider-Man (One More Day/Brand New Day)

Originally Posted by nolan

Stan Lee hasn't been in charge of Marvel since like the 1970s.

Joe Quesada has been in charge for the past nine years. He's made some good changes and bad changes. Of course, he probably had nothing to do with the animated films, because he's the editor in chief of the comics, and likely doesn't have much to do with animation arm of Marvel Entertainment, just the comics side.

But he's basically today's version of Stan Lee.

Except Stan Lee wouldn't have let a story where Spider-Man makes a deal with the devil be written.

Originally Posted by Dread

Except Stan Lee wouldn't have let a story where Spider-Man makes a deal with the devil be written.

First, I don't think anyone but Stan Lee could ever say what Stan Lee would and would not do.

Second, what is your objection to? The fact that Peter made a deal with the Devil, or like most people what the details of said deal were? Making a deal with the Devil made a lot of sense, given the circumstances. I don't know if he would have agreed to the terms of this particular deal.

The fact that Peter made a literal deal with the Devil to save his Aunt is what irks me, especially when I recall Aunt May telling Peter to let her go. Ignoring his aunt's requests and instead selfishly making a deal with the Devil is just villainous behavior for a hero such as Spider-Man to do. Spider-Man is a character who's main purpose from the beginning was to see how much crap he could go through while he still keeps his morals.

Not to mention the deal essentially resets most of the Spider-Man continuity, which is what Ultimate Spider-Man was doing essentially.

Originally Posted by Dread

The fact that Peter made a literal deal with the Devil to save his Aunt is what irks me, especially when I recall Aunt May telling Peter to let her go. Ignoring his aunt's requests and instead selfishly making a deal with the Devil is just villainous behavior for a hero such as Spider-Man to do. Spider-Man is a character who's main purpose from the beginning was to see how much crap he could go through while he still keeps his morals.

I think it is far more interesting that he finally didn't take the moral high rode. There's something that seems incredibly dull about a hero who, no matter what happens, is always "No! For I am a most proud and noble man who will never falter!"

I think that having the woman who essentially raised him being at death's door, and feeling at fault for it after already indirectly causing the death of his other parent figure might just drive even the most moral person to make a desperate and perhaps poorly advised choice. Because it is ok for heroes to make bad choices. It is what makes them interesting.

I have no objections to the story of One More/Brand New Day. I have objections to the behind-the-scenes reasoning, though.

Not to mention the deal essentially resets most of the Spider-Man continuity, which is what Ultimate Spider-Man was doing essentially.

Ultimate Spider-Man isn't (wasn't) a reset, it is (was) a re-imagining. One More Day didn't really cause a 'reset' so much as a retcon/change the status-quo. The backstory is all identical, minus a few major things. Which is understandably annoying, but it happens all the time in comics

a forum split in half. half has no rules, the other does.
intrested?

link is in the word 'intrested?'

link is in the word 'intrested?'

I would have found it more interesting if Peter let his Aunt die for a change. She's been close to death so many times that it has gotten annoying, and she survives a near-death experience again. Not to mention how she was dying in the first place was pretty stupid, as well. Spider-Man lives in a world of gods and sorcerers, yet no one that Spider-Man asks for
help can apparently fix a bullet wound. Also, Mephisto asking Spider-Man for his marriage is just a lazy way of making Peter single, which I also disagree with. Why would Mephisto, the lord of evil, want his marriage? How is that valuable to him?

And I agree that heroes make mistakes, but this was just flat-out wrong. Peter needed to be strong, get over his aunt dying, and try to move on with his life. He needs to do this because he know it is right despite how much he knows it will hurt him emotionally, which is what Spider-Man is all about, making those tough choices because he is supposed to be responsible with his gift. It's not about being all noble and proud, a hero should strive for the right path when he can. Not doing selfish and villainous things like ignoring his dying aunt's pleas and making a deal with the literal devil. I know heroes sometimes screw up, but this was plain evil on Spidey's part and he knew it. And usually when a hero screws up, they figure out what they did wrong and try to redeem themselves, but since the Devil erased Peter's memory of the deal, he doesn't know what he did wrong and we have to assume what he did was good because Aunt May lives yet again.

Originally Posted by Dread

I would have found it more interesting if Peter let his Aunt die for a change. She's been close to death so many times that it has gotten annoying, and she survives a near-death experience again. Not to mention how she was dying in the first place was pretty stupid, as well. Spider-Man lives in a world of gods and sorcerers, yet no one that Spider-Man asks for
help can apparently fix a bullet wound.

How she ended up mortally wounded makes sense to me. Spider-man went public, something he never did in order to protect his loved ones. He did, his loved ones got hurt. It was bound to happen.

Also, Mephisto asking Spider-Man for his marriage is just a lazy way of making Peter single, which I also disagree with. Why would Mephisto, the lord of evil, want his marriage? How is that valuable to him?

The behind-the-scenes intention was to make Peter single, and thus more appealing to young readers who apparently (according to Joe) had a hard time identifying with a married character. This, I agree, was stupid.

As for why Mephisto wanted their marraige:
"Have you thought for a second to ask why? Why I chose you two out of all people?

It's because yours is the rarest love of all.

Pure, unconditional and made holy in they eyes of he who I hate most.

A love like yours comes along but once in a millennia and to take that from him...

...to deny him...

...is a victory like none other imaginable."

Whether or not you think that is a good explanation doesn't really change that it is the explanation given.

And I agree that heroes make mistakes, but this was just flat-out wrong. Peter needed to be strong, get over his aunt dying, and try to move on with his life. He needs to do this because he know it is right despite how much he knows it will hurt him emotionally, which is what Spider-Man is all about, making those tough choices because he is supposed to be responsible with his gift. It's not about being all noble and proud, a hero should strive for the right path when he can. Not doing selfish and villainous things like ignoring his dying aunt's pleas and making a deal with the literal devil. I know heroes sometimes screw up, but this was plain evil on Spidey's part and he knew it. And usually when a hero screws up, they figure out what they did wrong and try to redeem themselves, but since the Devil erased Peter's memory of the deal, he doesn't know what he did wrong and we have to assume what he did was good because Aunt May lives yet again.

Villainous? Evil? Not words I would personally use to describe his actions.

Again, this is the woman who raised him. For all intents and purposes, this woman is his mother. Essentially, Peter Parker revealed his identity to the world, and because of that reckless and stupid move, his mother was fatally wounded. Just like how years before he made a choice and the man who was essentially his father was killed.

It has nothing to do with his power. It has nothing to do with "with great power comes great responsibility." It has simply to do with a son who does not want to feel responsible for the deaths of both of his parents. May may have felt ready to go, may have not wanted him to do what he did, but him ignoring her wishes is not something that is so hard to understand, given his circumstances. It even says that what makes him so desperate is that he feels responsible. If it had been a heart attack, a slip in the shower, maybe even a random mugging, then he might have been at peace with it. But it wasn't.

Evil actions, villainous actions, are reserved for those who wish to do harm to others. The deal Spider-man made did harm to himself and Mary Jane, and it was both of them who decided to make the choice, the sacrifice. The fact that he made it with the Devil is morally questionable, yes, but in a state of desperation it is at the very least understandable.

Also, I am splitting this off into its own thread.