How many ZUers like anime?

There are plently of anime or manga that explain social or mental problems.

Neon Genesis Evangelion deconstructs mecha anime and shows a realistic look at the characters from a typical anime. Paranoia Agent explores social problems in japan. Perfect Blue looks at the dangers of fame.

And there are plently more.

Originally Posted by Jägermeister

Also cartoons are for children.

Incorrect. There are many cartoons for adults. In fact, they were originally intended for adult audiences.

Originally Posted by Mr. Evangelion

Needless to say, Hazz is so much better at explanations than I am.

As for Jagërmeister, your logic fails miserably. And I would also highly doubt whether you've actually seen decent or animé/manga masterpieces, because you definitely if you respond in such an idiotic manner.

I hereby end this argument.

Your logic fails because you can't explain anything other than leeching of the answersd of others.

Also hazz when you first put mecha into a realistic deep thing you made a mistake. Regardless if the Characters have feelings or such the whole thing is unrealistic and goes down to violence and explosions and robots as it's jist. Paranoia Agent has many many kiddy themes to it. Aside from what you listed it looks no different to me than those old After School special cartoons which addressed social issues in a place that matters because I live there. Woth perfect Blue though I do give you that you have a valid arguement but it like any other anime tailors to a culture of people who like cartoons. The problem is you people won't admit they are cartoons. Are you japanese do you speak japanese, are these shows japanese culture? In short it's all comcs and cartoons to me. People say the same that Batman and Marvel and other Western animation is mature but its all goes down to who mature who's your group. The fact that no one over the age of lets say 20 that's normal watches this anymore. And for the ones that do...well you see where I'm going with this.

If you want anime with a more mature air, watch Spiral and Trigun.

I actually Like Trigun.. as for spiral I have no clue what it is. In short I like anime but I don't think it to be anything more than cartoons really.

Well, duh. Of course they're cartoons. But you have the warped sense that cartoons mean something made exclusively for kids.

What's wrong with it being a cartoon?

I could easily dismiss all films as strung together action scenes with poor acting or all books as boring 5000 page science fiction stories.

Originally Posted by Jägermeister

The problem is you people won't admit they are cartoons.

Really? Anime is cartoons? Thank you for clearing that up because I had no idea that they were.

Seriously though, you won't find anyone here who "won't admit they are cartoons". We know they are cartoons.

Originally Posted by Hazz

What's wrong with it being a cartoon?

I could easily dismiss all films as strung together action scenes with poor acting or all books as boring 5000 page science fiction stories.

As could I, but what makes your anime good? most the times it's not the story and if it is then you don't know what real story telling should be. But yes they are entertaining to see gunfights and action but I absolutely hate it when people praise anime as if it were some monumental artistic achievment. It's has good stories sometimes, but it can also be meh at times and have people hailing it. Just look at Full Metal Alchemist and Naruto or Bleach.

I think that lots of manga have greats story. Sure the majority is pretty bad (Sturgeon's law, anyone?) but there are still plently of good series (I like the FMA manga, Naruto is bleh and Bleach is alright). I don't think that anyone thinks that Naruto and co are an artistic achievements.

I actually generally prefer Western comics over manga (Watchmen > You) but manga is still pretty decent.

You may not think people see Naruto as an artistic achievement, but look around on the anime board for people who right about it. i swear these people are the sexual degenerates of our time.

That's why they're called Narutards.

Yeah, there are lots of idiotic anime fans but that is no reason to not like the actually shows, just try to ignore all the creepy fanboys.

Okay, so this is pretty crazy.

First I'd say that in my experience reading hundreds of manga and watching a lot of anime (although I'm bigger with manga tbh), the assumption that there's more bad than good with it is very very VERY wrong. There's loads of good anime and manga that people often overlook, hell there's loads of great titles that are just achievements when it comes to telling a great story with everything else great about it. But, of course, you can't blame people when a lot of anime shown on TV is just pure trash, the TV being the biggest source of watching anime even with me.

And for Jägermeister, well he's just dumb. I love cartoons dating back to the works of Chuck Jones, and will always love cartoons if there's a good one (sadly a lot of American ones are just trash nowadays), so I don't see anime as any different other than the fact that anime tends to try to tell a story rather than just be entertaining.

While I may not agree with the overall gist of what Jägermeister has to say, but he strikes on something which I feel could use a little more development.

Consider two cartoons dealing with the subject of WWII. One is from America and one is from Japan.

The Japanese film chronicles the exploits of two kids after the bombs have been dropped on Hiroshima and their fight to survive. Despite any context that may have been injected into the script, specifically, the underused symbolism inherent of fireflies within the context of the film, what Grave of Fireflies degenerates into is at best a loose collection of clichés and deja-vus aimed at making cry the most hardened of men.

The American film, you may be surprised to know is actually Dumbo. If you consider the context in which the movie is filmed, it is actually quite a brilliant piece of pre-WWII propaganda. If you think about it, the elephants play the part of Nazi Germany in the context of a circius. This makes Dumbos ability of flight all the more poignant, this makes the "Baby Mine" scene all the more crushing, this makes the "Pink Elephants" sequence all the more terrifying.

Now I ask you, what is the primary difference between these two films aside from their origin? Well, cultural differences can be taken into account, but perhaps most strikingly, GoF was made in 1988. Dumbo was made in 1941.

When Malick released The Thin Red Line in 1998, it bombed. It's competiton, Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan was, by contrast, a smash hit. It is surprising to me that a film (which Martin Scorsese cited as the greatest film of the '90s) be so harshly treated by critics and the general public. I have nothing against SPR, but in my eyes The Thin Red Line is a far superior film, especially when the artistry of film is considered and not just the entertainment value. Film, animation, and storytelling are an art.

It is my conservative opinion that Anime, by and large, is a product of its time. It is a commercial business, and one that is becoming all the more fierce thanks to intense competition from other studios as well as online pirating. Instead of gamble on something that may turn out to be a "Thin Red Line" or "Iron Giant" of anime, they instead pander to their target audience because they know it's what will sell, just like how Disney targets to it's demographic for profit margins rather than artistic merit. Who cares how relevant it is just as long as it sells?

It isn't terribly difficult to make film or television series with a fairly interesting plot. It is very difficult, however, to make one that symbolically explores concepts and characters, and places them in context with a idea or concept with the overall goal of providing a strong, meaninful message to your audience. An example of the latter would be Falling Down. Examples of the former are countless.

My point is, anime is overrated and the large percent of it contains very shallow and childish themes, even many of those which may be considered 'classics'.

Guess what? America isn't immune either.

Originally Posted by The Unsung Hero

It isn't terribly difficult to make film or television series with a fairly interesting plot. It is very difficult, however, to make one that symbolically explores concepts and characters, and places them in context with a idea or concept with the overall goal of providing a strong, meaninful message to your audience. An example of the latter would be Falling Down. Examples of the former are countless.

My point is, anime is overrated and the large percent of it contains very shallow and childish themes, even many of those which may be considered 'classics'.

Guess what? America isn't immune either.

I'm serious, please, read more manga and watch more anime. There's literally hundreds out there that are exactly what you described would be. I've read hundreds of manga (can't say much with anime since I don't watch it much) that, quoting from you, "symbolically explores concepts and characters, and places them in context with a idea or concept with an overall goal of providing a strong, meaningful message to your audience." Literally, I don't get your point in saying anime is an overrated genre. Sure there's anime that can be overrated for what it is, even good ones (like Grave of the Fireflies as you mentioned) can be overrated if someone calls them great pieces of literature. But there's many, many, MANY ones that are achievements in what you described to be and is mostly why I love reading manga so much. A lot of people overlook these titles which is understandable considering they're hardly seen in people's most favorites list or mentioned, but they're indeed out there.

Edit: I compiled a small list of them off the top of my head. I tried to choose the most popular and recognizable of them:

Anime wise:

Texhnolyze
Pale Cocoon
Neon Genesis Evangelion (overrated but I could go on about how deep it is, and no it isn't the Judeo-Christian symbols)
Anything by Satoshi Kon although Paranoia Agent is his best work
Haibane Renmei
Baccano!
Mindgame
Ghost Hound
The Girl Who Leapt Through Time

Manga wise:

Berserk
Eden: It's an Endless World!
Most stuff made by Osamus Tezuka like Pheonix and Adolf (I know he's probably the biggest manga artist ever but he's seriously made some really good stuff)
Vagabond
Anything made by Naoki Urasawa with 20th Century Boys and Monster being his greatest works.
Anything made by Katsuhiro Ōtomo with Akira and Domu: A Child's Dream being his greatest works.
Ohikkoshi
Anything by Taiyō Matsumoto
Sexy Voice and Robo
Helter Skelter