When did nintendo stop holding the crown?

A couple of years back, I truly started to get into video games, and I've accumulated a large amount of information, mostly historical knowledge (I know it's hard to think of history with video games, seeing that the video game market is only like 30 years old.). Anyway, I looked back on nintendo to find out why nintendo stoped being number 1.

I remember as a child, the NES was the console to own. Ahhh, the good old days! Mario, Kung fu, Zelda, Excite Bike, and the list goes on. Then there was Sega, who were nintendo's enemy for a longtime. Then there was the Super nintendo. Great system, proved that nintendo was still number one. Of course there was also the handheld wars, and gameboy beat the pants off of the game gear and the atarri lynx. Yeah, nintendo was the name associated with video games. Everytime you'd watch a movie, the console that the "dudes" were playing was a nintendo.

But then that fatal day occured. The Panasonic 3DO started to show off 3D graphics, and it was fasinating because it didn't use cartridges, it used CDs. Sony and PHilips approached nintendo to make a sort of CD attachment to the Super NES, but after nintendo witnessed Sega's CD console fail, nintendo was discouraged. Nintendo called off the agreement, but since they were in a sort of contract with Philips, they had to allow PHilips to borrow some of nintendo's mascots for their console, the Philips CD-i.

Sony, on the other hand, wanted revenge! The playstation was built for the sole purpose of destroying nintendo! (Don't you love how I over dramatize things!).

Sega didn't give up with CD's, and made the Sega Saturn. The Saturn was actually superior in graphics to the playstation. In fact, the playstations graphics were only slightly better than the super nintendo.

Nintendo had much pressure to compete with these two superior consoles, but nintendo (always afraid to take risks) didn't want to make a console which used CDs. So they created something that would knock them out of the console race and make them a mockery. It's name will always live in infamy to many nintendo fans...the virtual boy.

Nintendo wanted to make something innovative (Which with nintendo could either be a good thing, or something completely terrible!!) This system put nintendo into (what I like to call) a dark age. Where you just had your super nintendo to keep you company, and if you were foolish enough to have gotten a virtual boy, you would have had to live with the headaches it gave you.

But nintendo made it through, thanks to their little gameboy. The gameboy is what really kept the company alive during that Dark Age. Nintendo tried a come back with the Nintendo 64 (Which I think was the best designed nintendo console to ever be realeased). It was very impressive and truly was innovative! It had controls which had an analog stick to control the games. It had a rumble pack! And best of all, it four player slots! But alas, even this system couldn't bring nintendo back ontop. The system used cartridges (why nintendo?! Why?! The other consoles that used CDs did so well! Wasn't that enough proof!!) The lack of third party support is what made this system fail to take back the number one spot. Even if Playstation obviously stole many aspects from the N64 (Playstation started to make their controls have built in rumble, they also started to make a connection to allow four players to play) nobody saw sony as the copy cats they were. Even if the N64's design was way better than the playstation, nothing was going to get nintendo back ontop.

Until today, the damage that the Virtual Boy has caused is still affecting nintendo. Nintendo's biggest problems is that they don't follow trends. Even if more intelligent people often don't follow trends, in the business world it is important to follow them to make profit. If nintendo wanted they could have followed the trend with the gamecube and make it able to play DVDs and have more online games. But nintendo always wanted to be "different". Instead, they made gamecube have some sort of connection with the gameboy advance.

Nintendo should follow the trend (although I hate trends) and do whatever the other consoles are doing AND then leave some room to do the "innovative stuff" that they like to do.

If there is anything that you guys would like to add, or if you disagree with anything I have said, or if you just want to ask questions. Feel free!

Some of the major reasons why Nintendo "seems" to be in a low level region lately are because of:

-Lack of new games (Nintendo tend to remake classic games more than making a whole new sets of games).
-Tends to aim for General and Teen age groups with a few (not much) mature games.
-Tends to preserve it's "classic feeling" by trying to stay away from online mode. What more fun can you have with three other friends sitting beside you, screaming and cursing as you own them in every possible way? Sure, online mode provides more players playing, but in a sense, it's just extra players with a chance of lag and lower graphic resolutions, and bugs. I for one, don't care about the online mode.

In the end, as bad as Nintendo's situation may be right now, it's still a classic and independent company that tries to be "unique" and not follow the trend. I actually like it this way.

The Saturn was actually superior in graphics to the playstation. In fact, the playstations graphics were only slightly better than the super nintendo.

No, you are wrong. You are very wrong. The PSX was a lot more powerful than the SNES. It was also more powerful than the Saturn.

PSX Specs:
-CPU: 33mhz
-2mb RAM
-360,000 polys per second

Saturn Specs:
-CPU 28.6mhz
-2mb RAM
-200,000 polys per second

SNES Specs:
-CPU 3.58mhz
-128kb RAM
-128 max sprites
(source: 1999 Video Game Buyers Guide)

From that same issue, I also quote, off page 66:

The Saturn also was never able to overcome the handicap of being a less powerful machine than the Playstation.

The Sega Saturn was part of Sega's goal to provide 32-bit gaming. The 32x (that cheap addon for the Genesis) was the cheaper way to play 32-bit games. The Saturn was meant for people who wanted a fully independent 32-bit system.

Plus, 4-person play wasn't innovative. The NES had games with 4-player alternating games back in the late 80's. There were already multitap devices out for the SNES and Genesis/CD before the N64 saw the light of day.

Even though you did mention not using CD's as a blow to Nintendo, that was the main reason there was a lack of 3rd party support. Developing on carts was too expensive and limiting to developers. Thats the reason Square canceled the N64 version of Final Fantasy VII and closed it's Redmond, Washington offices.

Plus, if Nintendo "followed the trend," they'd simply be doing what you dissed Sony for; being the copycat.

Gee, this seems like an overreaction. As mentioned earlier, Nintendo is an independent company not defined by other company's standards. Trends come and go, but good games last forever. True, change is good in some circumstances, but that doesn't mean that trends are what must be followed. It's nice to have interesting and unique ideas emerge all the time. Think about games like Boktai or MMBN and even Animal Crossing. All of them are different and yet still fun to play. Boktai uses the sun like no other game has before, MMBN tosses Megaman into and RPG setting, and Animal Crossing was a new idea that blossomed into an addictive, but not boring, simulation game. Variety is good.

To capncornflakes: I apologize, I remembered the Knights commercial where they were saying that the graphics were better than anything you could see on the Playstation.

Quote: Plus, 4-person play wasn't innovative. The NES had games with 4-player alternating games back in the late 80's. There were already multitap devices out for the SNES and Genesis/CD before the N64 saw the light of day.

It was innovative because the N 64 was the first to have it standard with the system.

Quote:Even though you did mention not using CD's as a blow to Nintendo, that was the main reason there was a lack of 3rd party support. Developing on carts was too expensive and limiting to developers. Thats the reason Square canceled the N64 version of Final Fantasy VII and closed it's Redmond, Washington offices.

I had wanted to mention that, but thanks, I forgot about that.

Quote: Plus, if Nintendo "followed the trend," they'd simply be doing what you dissed Sony for; being the copycat.

Well, I did say that nintendo should follow the trend, but I did say that they should have some innovation. Just so long as they have innovation. You're gonna have to follow the trend when it comes to business because, for the most part, trends sell. See, nintendo has the innovation (sometimes at least) now all they need is to slightly follow the trend. (Maybe more online enabled games, a DVD in the next system would be nice.)

Personally, I found the DVD feature useless. Why spend extra money on a system with a dvd feature that could cost a few hundred bucks, when there's a perfectly good dvd player for just 90 to 100+ dollars? Besides, a game console should only be doing what it's intended to do: gaming.

Not movie watching.

Personally, I found the DVD feature useless. Why spend extra money on a system with a dvd feature that could cost a few hundred bucks, when there's a perfectly good dvd player for just 90 to 100+ dollars? Besides, a game console should only be doing what it's intended to do: gaming.

Not movie watching.

Yeah, but they were the same price when they first came out. It saved my parents from having to buy a DVD player, and its just as good as any other one.

My reasons for retiring from being a Nintendo Fanboy:

-Online play. Where is it? Okay, I'll give you Phantasy Star, but...come on...That's it.
-Remakes of classic games. The only really good character this generation made by Nintendo is the alien dude on Pikmin. Too many remakes...
-Failure to proivde a variety of games. The Gamecube is still RPG starved, even with good games like Symphonia (but now it looks like theres going to be an RPG of LOTR).
-Too much equipment to buy if you want the full experience.

Personally, I think Nintendo should be more interested in the fact they're the leading handheld system, and seeing as how the DS games will cost 50$+, they could still make the same profits.

I don't buy a console with DVD features, i buy consoles that have games that are appealing to me. Nintendo have these games e.g. Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, so i bought a Gamecube to play these games.

Nintendo do lead in the handheld area, only because they are the only ones in there at the moment. Nintendo still make great games, they just need to advertise more often, then more people will buy them.

I guess Nintendo should slowly move out of that "Kids Only" games (which, most of them are, with a few exceptions). I mean, lately, most of the fun games are rated M and Nintendo should move out of the era where it is aiming for "All For Family" area.

It seems to me that the age medium (or means or average or whatever) of our global population is around 20-25+ ages, whereas before, it was more at 15-20+ ages. And this age thing will continue to rise (I know this because I've studied about it in my Human Geography). So therefore, Nintendo should start moving toward more "violent" games.

And for those parents who complain about how "violent games can affect a child", that's a complete bull----. If you don't like how the games work as of late, don't buy the darn games for your kids! But nooooo, you parents out there who only can whine about games doing "bad influences to kids" continue to buy those bloody games that are rated clearly "M" on the box! It's your fault, not the games' fault! Grrrr...

Originally Posted by charles

It was innovative because the N 64 was the first to have it standard with the system.

The 3DO had four-player gaming. In fact, it had theoretically infinite-player gaming, since the controllers were daisy-chained together. This was a "standard" feature, and one that was actively promoted with the system. Didn't work well, though.

One of the primary causes for Nintendo's loss of the "crown" is their treatment of developers right up until the 64-bit era. Because of Nintendo's monopolistic and inequitable licensing and royalties policies, particularly during the 8-bit era, most of the established developers were eager to pursue alternatives by the time the Playstation hit, particularly given the cost of N64 development, both in the cartridges and in royalties. Nintendo effectively got away with charging producers twice to release games; Once for the cartridges, which they would manufacture, and once for the royalties. Admittedly, them manufacturing the cartridges wasn't a horrible idea from their standpoint, as it'd guarantee quality control and cut their own production costs.

The Playstation was in the right place at the right time, and Sony's pricing structure fit, whether it as their intent or not. Playing off developer politics has been big since then, as reflected with the XBox, which has itself succeeded in snatching another segment (i.e. American developers).

That said, it also didn't help that the N64 had its own share of aggrivating idiosyncracies.

I use to play my friend's 3 DO, a lot of the games would show real footage (Mad Dog Mcree). While you would play, all of a sudden, the game would stop and show real footage of a man talking to you, then it would switch back to you playing (it's kinda hard for me to explain.) I know I briefly spoke about 3-DO, it only took one controller (Like the philips CD-I) but you could hook a controller to that one, and on and on.

You know your stuff Dryth!

Was it true that the Atari Jaquar was the first console to have 64 megabits instead of the N 64 (Megabits, megabytes? Could you explain the difference? I honestly don't know all the termanology) I'm not sure if that's true, an atari fanboy told me that. I know that Atari did try the CD add on with the Jaquar. I have never played a Jaquar, but I heard it was a pretty powerful console. Has anyone ever had their hands on a Jaquar?

Do you know what the reason was that 3 DO failed? Was it the over competition? Man! Back then, everyone was making a console! LOL! Do you agree! I mean: Nintendo, Sega, Atari (their last console, the Jaquar), 3 DO, Philips CD-i and sony (A little later on, but I guess they were in that huge console war). Did I forget any companies? Well, I guess it's safe to say that the Jaquar failed because of the 3 DO (or at least that how I see it.)

I liked the 3-DO to be honest, there was one version of the console where you had to open the top to put the game in, and another one where you pressed a button and the tray came out (like a computer). One was the panasonic version, the other was a megastar version? It was one of my favorite consoles.

To me, the 3-Do was a very sleak console, for that matter, so was the N64 ( I previously mentioned that) and the sega saturn was pretty sleak as well. To me, these three consoles were very well designed, I like an interesting looking console.

Originally Posted by charles

Was it true that the Atari Jaquar was the first console to have 64 megabits instead of the N 64 (Megabits, megabytes? Could you explain the difference? I honestly don't know all the termanology)

64-bit, and it's somewhat controversial as to what qualifies. it was easier in the early days of console to determine a console's "bit" since they'd only have one or two processors. When one considers the Jaguar, though, it becomes a bit more controversial: It had five processors, and the two key processors (the CPU and GPU) were 16-bit and 32-bit respectively. On top of these it had two "specialty" visual processors that were 64-bit, and another 32-bit processor for audio. So while it could be deemed a 64-bit console, it also demonstrated how processors being judged by "bit" was becoming kinda irrelevant.

Processor "bits" themselves are based on the size of instructions and data that the processor can handle in a single operation. Processors that have more "bits" can typically perform a larger number specialized of functions, handle greater data throughput, and large/more accurate numbers.

Originally Posted by charles

Do you know what the reason was that 3 DO failed?

It entered the market on a downturn, didn't have the market support going in, and didn't have any compelling first-party games to hold it up while all the third-party developers were running around terrified over market fallout. Donkey Kong Country also made it harder for consumers to establish its distinctive advantage over the SNES, since its actual 3D gaming was still primative enough that it wasn't a sure sell. The same is pretty much true for the Jaguar, mainly the downturn and lack of support issues.

The CD-i suffered from the same, but also the fact that it wasn't marketed as a gaming console. It didn't do too badly with some school boards (one of the primary markets), but education electronics haven't ever been great for profit.

Do you recall if the Jaquar had 3D graphics are not? I was always curious about this console. I hated the controller! Definetely one of the ugliest controllers ever made!

I never could get much information back in the day, when I was young in the middle east, we didn't have as many magazines and stuff as you guys have in the Western world.

Nice talking to you Dryth! Were you around during all that? Or are you just curious about the video game industry? I had to try and accumulate the knowledge, it was hard. We were limited to video game information in Jeddah.

The 3 DO probably did well because for awhile (at least in the middle east) it had a bit of hype behind it. It looked nice, pretty impressive graphics, yadda yadda yadda.

I didn't like the way Philips went with the Philips CD-i. All I have to say is what a waist. I have one, the only reason I keep it is because I have those three zelda games on it (Horrible games by the way) and they're rare. The only good game that I can think of that came out on CD-i was " The 7th Guest" and "Mad Dog McCRee". Many education and business associations bought these. I see some that sell for 400 dollars. My attitude is keep them!

Originally Posted by charles

Do you recall if the Jaquar had 3D graphics are not?

Yeah, the two 64-bit processors existed primarily to make 3D graphics possible. One handled object architectures while the other handled transformations and basic shader effects, if I recall.

Originally Posted by charles

Nice talking to you Dryth! Were you around during all that? Or are you just curious about the video game industry? I had to try and accumulate the knowledge, it was hard. We were limited to video game information in Jeddah.

I was around, but was young enough that I didn't have money to spend on the drought competition in the '90s. Still, it forced me to do the research if I wanted even one of them. I still remember the infomercials Atari, Philips, and Panasonic started airing, at the time, heh. Since then, I've spent a lot of work in my early university days working with older embedded chipsets, many of which having been used in classic consoles, which helps to keep interest peaked.

As for the 3DO, yeah, it did had its time and limited success. It also got a lot of hype for its capabilities long before it was even released. I remember a load of friends wanted to get it when it first came out, but the cost was just insane for us at the time. Two friends ended up with 3DOs, but only because they had rich parents. The irony being that I continued to spend tons of money on extremely expensive SNES games, at the time.

Some of the educational software for the CD-i had potential. Of course, the problem it faced was competing against Macs in the classroom. Not a lot of reason for many schools to buy a CD-i and software when they could buy a Mac and put their own presentations together using HyperCard/Studio. Meanwhile the CD-i couldn't beat out traditional presentation technology in the workplace, and there weren't any compelling office tools. Kinda a shame, since it could have been decent if they'd been in a better position to meet the real needs of their target markets.

If I recall correctly, wasn't the 3 DO 700 dollars!! At least I know in the Middle East it was! What an outrageous amount! My parents almost bought me one! I'm glad now that they didn't, cause I can see how ridiculous it is.

It sounds like you're studying graphic design or something related to that field. It says you're from Canada. Are you planning on going into the video game industry? I pondered about it, but I'm not computer savi. So I'm thinking of opening a video game retail store with my older brother. My brother is majoring in law and is a wiz when it comes to law. I'm responsible for handling anything related to video games. We plan on revolutionizing the way you shop at a video game retail store in America. I would tell you how, but there are too many ears out here in the video game world.

One of my friends has a website he's making that deals with import games, so I learn a bit from him. But most of my knowledge is from watching the video game industry over the years.

I truly blame the virtual boy for nintendo's misfortunes (among other things). This insult to video game consoles truly pludged them into a dark age. In fact, if I remember correctly, the guy who came up with the idea of the virtual boy was the same man who made nintendo tons of money by inventing the gameboy (I'm not sure if he invented it, but he is credited for it). After the failure of the virtual boy, he himself was seen as a failure. And (if you know about Japanese business) he was seen as a disgrace to nintendo. He was given an office by a window (Although in America and anywhere else this would be nice, in Japan it's an insult. It shows that you have free time because you are not trusted with important work) The man, roughly two years later, died in a car accident. It is unsure if it was suicide or not. It is quite common, however, for Japanese business men to commit suicide should they fail their company.

It is a shame cause the man was truly brilliant. The virtual boy (although I sneer at the mention of it) was an idea ahead of its time. At first, I truly was in awe when I saw this console. But it is a shame that it just wasn't worth it. The only color the system could display was red, and it gave you a headache after 10 minutes of playing. I wanted to like this system, but it was too far ahead of its time. Perhaps they should try this again now that they have the technology (Or not!).