The Romance Thread IV: The Debate Continues

Originally Posted by Lunar6

In all seriousness, I'm more the guy who thinks that they should eventually give all the girls the backseat in favor of not a sidekick, but a secondary protagonist. I think the "Bros before hoes" concept is the way to go now.

What if Zelda was the secondary protagonist? If there's anyone in the entire game ( other than a completely new character to be created ) that could fill those shoes, I think it would be her. I've seen the playable Zelda threads and I love the idea, as I did also with the endings of WW and TP when they teamed up on Ganondorf. She's got an entirely different set of skills than Link has, they could team up for great effect. ( Like Paper Mario with Peach )

In terms of romance, if Link and Zelda were to be working together over the period of an adventure, that's a classic set up for romance. I think they were trying this with Midna, but felt the need to "balance it out", once again to give the plethora of love interests each a chance. And they watered down what they had for that.

I've always thought Telma was kinda creepy... She's pretty much an older hoe XD . Heh heh... BTW, eternal legend, I see you've changed your sig pic again. Too many odd opinons about the one with Link and Zelda? Or just for a change of sceanery?

zelda's a prostitute! link should mary ruto!!!

I'm gonna tell Gilderpilot on you. As for a LinkxRuto pairing, I can see it being possible maybe in the adult timeline. But outside of catering to Ruto's every whim and having to learn how to mate with her, I can't see Link having any special responsiblility or real impact within the Zora kingdom as a Zora Prince at all. Then again it would be more acceptable for Link being a useless tool in the Zora royal court than the Hyrule court I guess. So zenox24 maybe you can give an explanation on how the LinkxRuto pairing could be the match made in heaven then.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

What if Zelda was the secondary protagonist? If there's anyone in the entire game ( other than a completely new character to be created ) that could fill those shoes, I think it would be her. I've seen the playable Zelda threads and I love the idea, as I did also with the endings of WW and TP when they teamed up on Ganondorf. She's got an entirely different set of skills than Link has, they could team up for great effect. ( Like Paper Mario with Peach )

No. I still stick by my idea (besides, they're already playing the idea of a female assistant in the new Prince of Persia game). The ideas I had in mind were that in the game, there's a character that Link occasionally crossses paths with, and fills the role of an unlikely co-hero, one who's not bound by destiny like Link and/or Zelda, but ultimately becomes intertwined with them nonetheless. Yes, I would make it a male character--using a female character would more likely than not create nothing more than the inevitable sexual tension cliche' that was pretty blatantly used in the likes of the Sands of Time trilogy. Far more subtle would be something more "brotherly" for lack of a better term. That's one bond that has yet to be truly explored in Legend of Zelda, and one that, in my opinion, has always been better than romance. Using Zelda for this role instead of making a character with a kind of prowess, ideals, morale, and overall concept to kind of mirror, if not contrast, with that of Link would just be winging it (and don't try and convince me that they can use Zelda for that kind of concept, because that would be further winging it with her).

I found Zelda's role in Twilight Princess to be, while minor, satisfying. She was enigmatic to an extent, which made her "cool", but at the same time, she was a source of knowledge, one that fit her given her role as the keeper of the Triforce of Wisdom. I think such a role should be taken to the next level, with Zelda "reprising" the role. They tried something like that in OOT, but more on the lines of an inopportune advisor, and well, we weren't supposed to know that Sheik was Zelda anyway until the time came, so yeah

Originally Posted by gilderpilotgirl

In terms of romance, if Link and Zelda were to be working together over the period of an adventure, that's a classic set up for romance. I think they were trying this with Midna, but felt the need to "balance it out", once again to give the plethora of love interests each a chance. And they watered down what they had for that.

It's an overused one, and I bring my point back of taking for granted elements that were less than implications. What can be confirmed of Link and Midna's travels together? Their relation changed from one to reluctant allies to caring for one-another. Beyond that is where the speculation truly begins in this case. The same is said for many other cases in the series.

Originally Posted by zenox24

zelda's a prostitute! link should mary ruto!!!

BLORGH! GUH! BLEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKK

Originally Posted by Lunar6

No. I still stick by my idea (besides, they're already playing the idea of a female assistant in the new Prince of Persia game). The ideas I had in mind were that in the game, there's a character that Link occasionally crossses paths with, and fills the role of an unlikely co-hero, one who's not bound by destiny like Link and/or Zelda, but ultimately becomes intertwined with them nonetheless. Yes, I would make it a male character--using a female character would more likely than not create nothing more than the inevitable sexual tension cliche' that was pretty blatantly used in the likes of the Sands of Time trilogy.

It's an overused one, and I bring my point back of taking for granted elements that were less than implications. What can be confirmed of Link and Midna's travels together? Their relation changed from one to reluctant allies to caring for one-another. Beyond that is where the speculation truly begins in this case. The same is said for many other cases in the series.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion; I should probably point out though that a certain amount of the fanbase likes romance. Or maybe romance isn't the right word, ( as you are correct in that we've never seen it fully developed ) maybe "chemistry" fits better. I personally wouldn't enjoy a story as much if all possibilities of romance were cut out.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Far more subtle would be something more "brotherly" for lack of a better term. That's one bond that has yet to be truly explored in Legend of Zelda, and one that, in my opinion, has always been better than romance. Using Zelda for this role instead of making a character with a kind of prowess, ideals, morale, and overall concept to kind of mirror, if not contrast, with that of Link would just be winging it (and don't try and convince me that they can use Zelda for that kind of concept, because that would be further winging it with her).

I have no issues with a brotherly character, I just wouldn't want to see Zelda and Link's chemistry completely thrown out. ( Which I feel they mostly did in TP ) Anyways, in terms of mirroring/contrasting Link's character, I can see that working. I would suggest they've mildly tried in MM with the Skull Kid being a somewhat parallel ( but gone evil ) to Link. It would be another way to expose Link's character by showing what he is or is not.
You won't get any arguments from me about Zelda and that. She may be somewhat similar to Link in character, but she's herself. And making her evil would destroy the foundation of who she is.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

I found Zelda's role in Twilight Princess to be, while minor, satisfying. She was enigmatic to an extent, which made her "cool", but at the same time, she was a source of knowledge, one that fit her given her role as the keeper of the Triforce of Wisdom. I think such a role should be taken to the next level, with Zelda "reprising" the role. They tried something like that in OOT, but more on the lines of an inopportune advisor, and well, we weren't supposed to know that Sheik was Zelda anyway until the time came, so yeah

Are you suggesting a bigger role for her? Because I can completely agree with that. Where we've seen her in larger roles ( WW as Tetra/Zelda, plus OoT as you mentionned ) I personally loved it.

Originally Posted by gliderpilotgirl

Everyone's entitled to their opinion; I should probably point out though that a certain amount of the fanbase likes romance. Or maybe romance isn't the right word, ( as you are correct in that we've never seen it fully developed ) maybe "chemistry" fits better. I personally wouldn't enjoy a story as much if all possibilities of romance were cut out.

I'm well aware of the number of romance-shippers in the Zelda fanbase. I've just stopped viewing it as potential canon, because it's ultimately speculation. Though the use of the word chemistry is a good use of the word indeed. Romance, to me, hardly counts as a priority in a story. At least in the case of Legend of Zelda's story/ies. Not that I'm accusing anyone here in particular, but I'm just on the belief that romance is scarce, if ever, consistent in the Zelda series, and the last thing it is is a necessity. I like to think of it as a neutral force. Besides, I hate fan couple flame wars

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

I have no issues with a brotherly character, I just wouldn't want to see Zelda and Link's chemistry completely thrown out. ( Which I feel they mostly did in TP )

I think doing that was a good start. Be it by coincidence, or pure intention, it seemed to simultaneously open up room for several more characters that were most definately more well-integrated into the story in at least some way than in any Zelda game before. I think that's a better turn than just emphasizing one character, no matter her place in the overall series. Interaction between them doesn't need to be cut out, but it certainly doesn't require the same kind of priority that it used to have.

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

Anyways, in terms of mirroring/contrasting Link's character, I can see that working. I would suggest they've mildly tried in MM with the Skull Kid being a somewhat parallel ( but gone evil ) to Link. It would be another way to expose Link's character by showing what he is or is not.
You won't get any arguments from me about Zelda and that. She may be somewhat similar to Link in character, but she's herself. And making her evil would destroy the foundation of who she is.

Well, I wasn't exactly talking about anyone becoming particularly evil. Maybe plot points that involve some confrontation over a difference in morale or a kind of misunderstanding, if necessary, taken to the extent of a plot-born boss fight. But like any story of it's kind, it's ultimately resolved in some way. I suppose I used the term "parallel" in the wrong context, what I meant was that while the character concept that I have in mind would ultimately be that of one on the same side as Link, Zelda, etc., he'd have a few traits that aren't photo-copy identical to them, but not so much that there creates a kind of particualr disdainful tension.

Originally Posted by gilderportgirl

Are you suggesting a bigger role for her? Because I can completely agree with that. Where we've seen her in larger roles ( WW as Tetra/Zelda, plus OoT as you mentionned ) I personally loved it.

Well, my idea in particular would be that of a mentor figure, or rather, a source for say, her sheer advice. As far as screen-time is concerned, I would think at the same amount as what Sheik received in OOT. So, yes, pretty much.

Originally Posted by darkbeastganon

BLORGH! GUH! BLEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKK

LOL!! Yeah...LinkxRuto is not my favorite choice either. Other than Link being legally engaged to her they seem incompatible if you ask me. In a way Ruto is like Midna with a bossy and dominating personality that IMO would be too much for kind and gentle Link to bear longterm wise. I can only see LinkxRuto as a short term relationship at best, but eventually I see Link either settling down with Malon or returning to the kokiri forest with Saria in a non-romantic/innocent friendship type of relationship. Then again, the Adult timeline is all theoretical anyway since Link ultimately returned to the Child timeline. Anyway its still fun to debate about but IMO, whether in a romantic or non-romantic/friendship relationship, as long as OOT Link with fairy has a female ordering him around and telling him what to do, he will be very content no matter what lifestyle he would theoretically settle into.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

I think doing that was a good start. Be it by coincidence, or pure intention, it seemed to simultaneously open up room for several more characters that were most definately more well-integrated into the story in at least some way than in any Zelda game before. I think that's a better turn than just emphasizing one character, no matter her place in the overall series. Interaction between them doesn't need to be cut out, but it certainly doesn't require priority.

I suppose it depends on how you view the series and especially their interaction in terms of importance. When I look at what I consider my ideal Zelda game, I see the "big three" getting the time and respect they deserve at least in an A-plot story. ( Triforce, Hyrule centered ) Anything else less feels wrongly balanced. I don't think you need to butcher the supporting cast to do it either. I see WW as a glowing example. Tetra and Link had huge chemistry, a well developed relationship and Ganondorf was integrated perfectly.
( I think that the better the relationship we have between Link and Zelda, the more it enhances their connection ) Yet we still had people like Medli, Makar and Komali who got screen time. More importantly, they were mostly relevant to the story. In TP we had all this time with Ilia and the Ordon kids, yet all I could think was, "Who are you guys again?" We barely got to know Darbus or the Gorons, Ralis to a certain extent and the Group briefly.
In terms of the big three, I think they should have just left Zelda and Ganondorf out: Midna and Zant carried the show.

Originally Posted by Lunar6

Well, my idea in particular would be that of a mentor figure, or rather, a source for say, her sheer advice. As far as screen-time is concerned, I would think at the same amount as what Sheik received in OOT. So, yes, pretty much.

So business over romance. When dealing with romance, I don't think we are going to see it cut out of the series anytime soon. My question is, what's better? A superfluous character showing up and having to be shoved into the plot at various intervals to remind us of who she is as the dedicated love interest ( Ilia ) or a girl who is truly part of the adventure and lends herself to Link growing away from his roots, rather than tying him to them. ( Zelda or Midna ) It seems people are often divided into these two camps..."before" and "after." I'm definately for the after, if Link wasn't meant to change ( and his desires ), what was the point of his adventure?
Overall, I think it makes more sense to use Zelda for that case rather than making up a new character that is essentially her with some modifications. ( Midna )
Is it just me, or does it seem WW is a game made for the after crowd ( good relationship between L x Z ) and TP for the before? Both are sequels of a type to OoT yet couldn't be more different in this aspect.

Originally Posted by zenox24

zelda's a prostitute! link should mary ruto!!!

RuTo Iz A PrOsTiTuTe, ZeLiNk4EvAh!!!!!!!! PH333R MYINE WR@TH!!!!

Always wanted to do that......

Originally Posted by Lunar6

I'm well aware of the number of romance-shippers in the Zelda fanbase. I've just stopped viewing it as potential canon, because it's ultimately speculation. Though the use of the word chemistry is a good use of the word indeed. Romance, to me, hardly counts as a priority in a story. At least in the case of Legend of Zelda's story/ies. Not that I'm accusing anyone here in particular, but I'm just on the belief that romance is scarce, if ever, consistent in the Zelda series, and the last thing it is is a necessity. I like to think of it as a neutral force. Besides, I hate fan couple flame wars



I think doing that was a good start. Be it by coincidence, or pure intention, it seemed to simultaneously open up room for several more characters that were most definately more well-integrated into the story in at least some way than in any Zelda game before. I think that's a better turn than just emphasizing one character, no matter her place in the overall series. Interaction between them doesn't need to be cut out, but it certainly doesn't require priority.



Well, I wasn't exactly talking about anyone becoming particularly evil. Maybe plot points that involve some confrontation over a difference in morale or a kind of misunderstanding, if necessary, taken to the extent of a plot-born boss fight. But like any story of it's kind, it's ultimately resolved in some way. I suppose I used the term "parallel" in the wrong context, what I meant was that while the character concept that I have in mind would ultimately be that of one on the same side as Link, Zelda, etc., he'd have a few traits that aren't photo-copy identical to them, but not so much that there creates a kind of particualr disdainful tension.



Well, my idea in particular would be that of a mentor figure, or rather, a source for say, her sheer advice. As far as screen-time is concerned, I would think at the same amount as what Sheik received in OOT. So, yes, pretty much.

You know, IMO, you often seem to be teetering on the edge of being sexist or saying something that may upset a select few individuals..? If so, I respect your self restraint but could you 'water it down' a bit more? If not then it might just be my imagination. Unless you'd care to explain???

Hey.. I think I found another girl.... .Medli( i think thats her name.) the bird girl from WW
When you awaken her as a sage she falls into Link's arms.. They look so cute together!!!!

I now support this couple! <3