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Originally Posted by zenox24
im sorry i couldn't help but overreading your topic (lol) but im a christian and im kinda wondering, why athiests are trying to prove us wrong,
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Depends, really.
"Atheists" aren't a group in the same way that "Christians" are. Individual motivation varies widely.
However, for the most part Atheists are content to not do anything unless someone else brings up their belief first.
Those few who don't tend to hold the opinion that religion is an inherently bad thing or strongly feel that it's simply a form of escapism that prevents people from dealing with the real world and so people should be talked out of it.
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also. i mean the proof is right there in the bible...
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Circular logic.
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Originally Posted by Miilou Suede
Well, if they're innocent they get a free pass to Heaven.
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Then why not just kill everyone right now?
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Absolutely not. Nowhere does it state that all believers will be subject to this kind of extreme testing on earth from Satan with God's permission. It does state believers will face persecution but that'd be from an earthly source. I know God does allow suffering but it's not guaranteed to go all crazy like it did in Job. More on that if ya scroll down.
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Still, he punished Job for being his most loyal follower, and for no purpose. None. He gained nothing, Satan lost nothing. Job lost plenty. Sure he got it back after, but he still has all of that trauma that he went through, which I doubt having more wealth would really help him deal with.
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Here's the problem with your argument. You have absolutely nothing to gain if she doesn't disown my family. I assume you're a fallible, imperfect being like the rest of us and thus you have no justifiable reason to have a desire (or stake) in that people should worship you. God does have that stake. He is truly perfect and DOES deserve that worship.
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Few things here.
First off, why does he deserve that worship?
Secondly, how does needing people to worship you justify torture? Dictators who try that tend to be universally condemned.
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Because He has that stake He has a right to test people in order to strengthen their faith and those who are around them.
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No, he doesn't. Not any more than you are justified in trusting your friend's friendship by shooting their family.
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I think my own faith was strengthened by the story and I know many other believers who feel the exact same way. It's served its purpose (just as the rest of the Bible) in that it brings glory to God. That is why its justifiable.
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Knowing that God could turn on you at any moment just to prove a point
strengthened your faith?
Perhaps I should try to let you see the story the way I see it:
Job is incredibly loyal to God. He would do anything for him. God knows this, Job knows this, Satan knows this.
Just for fun, Satan bets God that he can break Job.
God either sees this as funny or feels that he has to prove himself to Satan, so he agrees to the bet. (I fail to see any other justification for it, really.)
Satan then proceeds to destroy Job's life.
After a while he's had his fun and decides to drop the issue.
God then undoes everything Satan did and gives Job a bit more material wealth (which Jesus would later rile against.)
If
any human did anything even
remotely similar to that we'd all want them condemned.
So, apparently ethics just don't apply to God, and he should be worshipped more because he's willing to mess up people's lives for no good reason.