Thread: The Pope
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:07 AM
Bobslob Bobslob is offline
Grand Inquisitor

Join Date: Mar 2003
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Re: The Pope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzaga View Post
That's because "beautiful and earthly things" can bring out the natural man, which is an enemy to God. I believe modest dressing is better suited (simple suits and ties and dresses that aren't irreverent). It shows your humbleness before God, instead of showing off fancy stuff and rising yourself above others. I'm not blaming the Pope for being prideful (as I said, I respect the man), but in these days, I prefer modest dress. Jesus Himself, set that example for us to follow.
Not 'beautiful and earthly things' but 'beautiful earthly things.' That is, beautiful material things.

You say that they can 'bring out the natural man, which is an enemy to God.' You'll have to expand on this. But I don't honestly see how this fits with the Judeo-Christian cosmology. The earth and creation is good (cf. Gen 1). Not only that, once fallen it has been sanctified by God Himself taking on flesh. The material world is good, and as was shown in the Old Testament, it was used as part of the divinely ordered worship. In the New Testament, the vision of heavenly worship only reinforces this. Hence, in the Apocalypse the elders sit at the throne in "dressed in white garments and with gold crowns on their heads" (Rev 4). Not only that, the elders have harps and "gold bowls filled with incense" (Rev 5). In fact, the Apocalypse is filled with liturgical references-- seven gold lampstands (candlesticks) (Rev 1:12). Also, the altar (Rev 8:3). It shouldn't come as a surprise, after all, for John is having this vision of the heavenly liturgy "on the Lord's day"-- Sunday (Rev 1:10). And although you are right that Scripture does not record Jesus wearing such robes during His earthly life, He most certainly is portrayed as wearing the robes of the high priest as He occupies its office in heaven.

If your thesis about these things is true, then God consistently commands and portrays worship in ways that entices man to sin. But that doesn't make sense. Besides that, as I said, it betrays a gnostic approach which has no place in Christianity. The right understanding of nature ought to raise our minds to its Creator. In the words of Augustine, all creation cries out to us, "I am not Him, but He made me!" This is especially true of Beauty, which is a transcendental inseparable from the Good and the True, and which ought to lead us to confess their origin in the Creator.

This is why the Catholic understanding is so much different-- stained glass windows were seen as a way to bring all of creation into the sacred space for worship. In a sense, they brought all creation within the church and sanctified it.

You'll have to articulate how having a beautiful place to worship or appropriate vestments is not humble, and then I'd be glad to discuss that point with you.

-Rob
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Last edited by Bobslob; 04-20-2008 at 11:17 AM.
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