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Originally Posted by andi
You're using a lot of words, and you don't know what they mean.
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You're right, I have a vague idea of what the words mean. But, I'm not using them on a global level (should have specified that in OP, sorry) but on the American level.
This is a discussion on American politics, Democrat/Liberal v Republican/Conservative. My attempt with this thread was to try and understand why American Conservatives are so dead set against American Liberals.
For example, there is a quote that is thrown around here by some people:
"Liberalism is a mental disorder", why is liberalism a mental disorder? Why is liberalism something to be abhorred?
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What is "liberalism"? Classic Liberalism, Social Liberalism?
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I was talking about this kind of liberalism.
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Modern liberalism in the United States, also referred to as American liberalism or simply as "liberalism" by Americans themselves, is a political ideology that seeks to maximize individual liberty, defined as the provision of both negative rights, that is freedom from coercion, and positive rights, such as education, health care and other services and goods believed to be required for human development and self-actualization. Consequently it attempts a wide distribution of power, where no ethnic group, religion or socio-economic class dominates the polity, free exchange of ideas, and government ensured provision of basic rights, such as education and health care in order to create an effective form of freedom.
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Modern liberalism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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What is "progressive"? Progressivism? Something heading towards a goal (and if so, what is that goal?)?
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By progressive, I meant looking toward the future, and changing things for the better.
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what is "conservative"? A conservative is Russia (Putin, a communist, intent on returning to the soviet era) is certainly not a "conservative" here. Are you speaking of conservatism as naturally a bad thing, and why (if or not)? Does wanting to return to a previous system make your idea inherently wrong?
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By conservative, I meant the conservatism that is practiced in the US.
While wanting to return to a previous system doesn't make the idea inherently wrong, it is not always better.
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"someone who looks ahead to what?"
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The future, trying to make society better.
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"welcomes what new ideas? - new ideas are not necessarily good, and old ideas are not necessarily bad"
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While new ideas may not be necessarily good, we should always look at them with an open mind. And not just brush them off because they are new, and don't agree with your current ideology.
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"cares about the welfare of what people? at what cost? you obviously can't support everyone with everything they ever want (you can't produce unlimited stuff for everyone, and can't have the best quality without paying a price for it), so what limits should you have? What price, and paid by whom?
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What people? - The people the government governs.
I know you can't support everyone with everything they want, but, I'm saying the government should be able to provide basic liberties and rights. And if those aren't adequate, then they should be able to fix it.
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"what stalemate and suspicions? why do they exist?"
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The "stalemate and suspicions" within American politics. Many members of our US government are unwilling to reach across party lines in creating new policies.
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"is the definition of liberal an actual definition of 'liberal', or is it a total straw man?"
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As defined by liberals.
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Before you get into a political discussion, I'd suggest considering just how large the political spectrum is. Check out The Political Compass, take the test, and maybe then I'll actually have an idea of what you're arguing against. Maybe it'll help you sort out exactly what you think "liberal" and "conservative" mean, or if they're even real terms with a relevant meaning, and then we can get a real discussion under way. :3
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The results:
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.67
I'm sorry for the confusion, I'll edit my post later on, once I have more time.