05-26-2007, 05:43 PM
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Location: at the end of days.
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Re: Do Animals Get Into Heaven?
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Originally Posted by MMKB
Humans are animals too, what sort of animals are you talking about?
I'm assuming you're talking about animals that can't reason or have self-awareness to the same degree as humans. (Speaking hypothetically again) If so, going by Christian values, surely animals that do their best to care for and nurture each other (I.e. pack behaviour) are following quite a few of these values? It isn't really their fault that they don't have the same capacity for higher thought as humans to be able to accept Christ as a saviour, so is it fair that they be excluded from heaven?
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I was referring to whatever animals you were referring to in your post, and/or to the animals referred to in the topic title "Do Animals Get Into Hevean?" Going by "Christian values" only humans have the ability to accept salvation, and only humans were actually offered salvation. However, also going by those same "Christian values" only humans actually ever sinned anyway, so other animals aren't deserving of damnation as humans are. So, if animals other then humans had souls, then they would be worthy of Heaven, according to "Christian values." However, not dependent on any kind of values, I don't think animals other then humans actually have souls anyway.
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Originally Posted by Pelagias
Now this is an interesting topic. Do animals go to Heaven? As said before, animals, in most cases, are blameless before the eyes of God, and are only doing what is in their nature to do so, or what their instincts encourage them to. The Bible says 'Thou shall not kill', but I'm sure almost every living carnivore on the planet has violated that rule more than once, and also plenty enough herbivores too. An elephant will kill a lion if it can, despite being a strict herbivore. A cow can charge, attack and kill a person. So can a pig. Or a dolphin. There's no end to what Nature has produced, and of what it is capable of. Humans are simply an extra product that Nature has produced, despite being by far about the most ingenious, creative and, for lack of a better word, more twisted, than most other animals in nature?
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Actually, the Bible doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill." That's a very common misunderstanding. If one of God's own laws was not to kill, then God Himself would be guilty of breaking His it. The actual commandment is "Thou shalt not murder." I'm sure you know the difference between killing and murder, but if you don't it shouldn't be hard to find out.
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Dogs are not 'always' loving and forgiving. I myself was attacked by nothing less than a Golden Retriver as a young child when I was walking down the street with my mother one day, when a man and this dog walked by when the dog suddenly snarled and lashed out at me for no apparant reason. Does this mean that this dog will go to Hell for an unprovoked attack? I don't believe so, no more so than my pet dog downstairs that is an absolute sweetheart. Of course, this brings up the question: Why would a human have a 'soul', and an animal not? As far as I knew, humans are animals too, and I'm not sure why simply having a higher sapience and a greater understanding would afford one creature possessing a 'supernatural' status over that of something else that's simply less intelligent.
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It entirely depends on whether the "soul" exists. If it does, you have to ask why it exists. According to the Bible the soul would exist because humans were made in God's own image, and because God gave humans souls. Thus, only humans would have a soul. If, though, you don't use the Bible's account, then it's entirely possible that either all animals have souls, or no animals (including humans) have souls.
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If some animals are 'blameless', would creatures having higher intelligence go to Hell too? Primates, dolphins and some species of parrot are highly intelligent and we don't even know how fully capable of intelligence they are, despite even being able to talk, such as a particular African Grey parrot that can speak, form it's own sentences, converse with a human and more. Dolphins are highly intelligent, yet will kill smaller creatures simply for enjoyment or sex. Bonobos engage in infidelity and have group sex, even performing homosexuality in many cases, being very bisexual. If intelligence is the degree that enables one to sin and understand sin, then obviously violation of this code will make the sinners go to Hell. Again, I ask that do more intelligent creatures go to Hell? Personally, I don't think so.
Myself, I simply believe that humans nor animals possess 'souls', and that there are more unique factors, codes, nature, learning and genetics that all contribute into shaping us into being the way we are, and that there is no 'divine' being hovering over our heads just waiting to punish us for infinity for finite sins. It just doesn't add up to me that only humans would be the ones 'singled out' by God for punishment for things like this when we are but animals ourselves.
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I'm sure it would add up more if you actually understood it. Not that you would have to believe it, but if you at least understood it then it would at least make sense.
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Originally Posted by benhelmuth
The reason that animals would not be able to get into heaven is because God did not create them to worship him. Getting into heaven does not require aquiring the Holy Spirit, it only requires the beliefe that Jesus Christ the one and only son of God died for your sins and through his blood your sins are forgiven. Since animals cannot understand that they cannot enter the kindom of heaven. Also animal exist phisically but not spiritually so there for when that body dies the animal no longer exists.
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Actually, according to the Bible, you do have to have the Holy Spirit to enter Heaven, but you pretty much summed up how to get the Holy Spirit ("...the beliefe that Jesus Christ the one and only son of God died for your sins and through his blood your sins are forgiven.") Of course, that doesn't cover everything. According to the Bible, its not all about belief. As the Bible says, "even the demons believe in God."
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Originally Posted by Aerorian
What makes an animal unworthy? How do we justify who's worthy or not? Status labelling to determine worthiness is one of the ugliest forms that humans can display.
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I'm not trying to justify who's worthy and who's not. I was replying to MMKB, who said that many animals were more deserving (worthy) of heaven than humans. I was asking how MMKB could make that claim. Let's just say that I still haven't got an answer to that yet...
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Originally Posted by Blizzaga
I believe that only applies to us humans and not animals. Even if you did die not believing in Christ, you still have a chance to learn in the Spirit World before resurrection and judgment. Animals are exempt from all this though, I believe.
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I think the Bible is pretty clear that once you die it's too late.
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Originally Posted by Blizzaga
It's an up-in-the-air belief. Meaning I don't know whether to accept it or not. However, I do believe that animals go to Heaven.
Do you have evidence to prove it wrong? No?
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I thought not.
I wish people would shut it about the evidence thing since, in their own hypocrisy, they cannot prove against it.
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Well, assuming you at least have some Christian beliefs, isn't the passage from Ecclesiastes that BBD posted evidence enough?
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...the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth...
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