In this article, I will be looking at all the evidence against a pre-OoT placement of TMC. My aim in this is to gather various types of evidence, and prove that not only is TMC not before OoT, but after TWW aswell. I will be looking at everything, from geography, to quotes, to enemies and will hopefully I'll be able to prove that TMC is not before OoT.

First, lets look at in game quotes. The most important thing to note is that every time the people are mentioned in TMC, they are referred to as humans, not Hylians:

"Once, humans and Picori shared that shrine as a meeting place." ~ King of Hyrule, TMC

"You humans call them the "Picori," but they refer to themselves as the Minish! Strange how, in the world of humans, only this forest has kept that name..." ~ Ezlo, TMC

"I gather it's been quite some time since they last saw a human..." ~ Ezlo, TMC

"Hm... I've never seen an outfit like that before. Are you a...human? Oh, my! It's been quite some time since any humans came here." ~ Festari, TMC

"In the meantime, you should track down the missing elements. One of them should be in the mine the humans dug." ~ Melari, TMC

"This must be what the humans who built this mine used to get around in here." ~ Ezlo, TMC

"I knew it was madness to risk our lives in that rickety human contraption!" ~ Ezlo, TMC

"It is the bridge between the Minish world and the human world." ~ Melari, TMC

"I know you can do it. After all, you made short work of that human mine." ~ Melari, TMC

"One day, Vaati took a hat I made for the humans -- my pride and joy." ~ Ezlo, TMC

"You know the legends, of course. The gifts the Picori gave the humans..." ~ Ezlo, TMC

"This is no good! No good at all! A human borrowed a book, and now none of us can get back to Elder Labrari!" ~ Town Minish, TMC

Although it cannot be proven whether the people are Hylian or human in TMC, judging from the other games, it is best to assume that the people are humans in TMC, since saying they are Hylians is much more of an assumption and has no evidence supporting it.


So we've established that the people of Hyrule in TMC were most probably human. So what about the state of Hyrule itself? Let's look at the account of the Fierce Wars that took place around a decade before OoT:

"Some time ago, before the King of Hyrule unified this country, there was a fierce war in our world. One day, to escape from the fires of the war, a Hylian mother and her baby boy entered this forbidden forest. The mother was gravely injured... Her only choice was to entrust the child to the Deku Tree, the guardian spirit of the forest. The Deku Tree could sense that this was a child of destiny, whose fate would affect the entire world, so he took him into the forest. After the mother passed away, the baby was raised as a Kokiri. And now, finally, the day of destiny has come!" ~ Great Deku Tree Sprout, OoT

Before the King of Hyrule unified this country. It doesn't say reunified, it just says unified, meaning that this was the first time that Hyrule had been united under one King. But in TMC, Hyrule is clearly united, and under the rule of a King aswell. How can this be so if TMC is before OoT?


Now, onto the races of Hyrule. Which races are present in TMC and OoT? Well, let's take a look:

The Minish Cap:
- Humans (most likely)
- Gorons
- Minish
- Wind Tribe

Ocarina of Time:
- Hylians
- Gorons
- Zoras
- Kokiri
- Gerudo

As you can see, the only race that appears in both are the Gorons, but I'm going to leave them till last for a good reason. Now, we've already established that we do not know for certain whether the people are Hylian or not in TMC, so we'll move on to the other races. If TMC is before OoT, where are the Zoras in TMC, and where did they come from in OoT? Clearly both they and their Domain have been around for a while in OoT, since the Zoras are a well established race that have strong connections with the Royal Family, plus they have their own patron deity and a temple where they go to worship (Water Temple). Yet in TMC there isn't a trace of their existance. No Zora's Domain, no Jabu-Jabu, no Water Temple and no Zoras. How is this possible if TMC is before OoT?

So what about the Kokiri and the Gerudo? Well, the Kokiri have obviously been around for a long time, since the Great Deku Tree created them, and we all know that the Great Deku Tree is extremely old:
So if TMC is first, where are the Kokiri, and for that matter, the Great Deku Tree? They are nowhere to be found. How could this be if TMC is before OoT?

And what about the Gerudo? They've been in Hyrule for quite awhile too, since they have their own fortress, their own ancient temple and their own hidden treasures. So where are they in TMC, and for that matter, where do they live? Well, from comparing the TMC map to other maps from around its time (i.e. FSA and ALttP), we know that the swamp is in the middle of Hyrule, with a desert to the west of it. Since the swamp in TMC is in the west (rather, the south-west), and the first peak of Death Mountain (which at the time was called Mount Crenel) is also in the west (when it should be in the middle of the map), then we can come to the logical conclusion that we are not seeing all of Hyrule in TMC, and that there is the land that we are accustomed to seeing in the west in FSA and ALttP to the west of the game area in TMC. This makes it possible for the Gerudo to be around at the time of TMC, infact I'm almost certain of it, since they are in FSA. However, this does not prove either way whether or not TMC is or isn't before OoT.

Now. The Gorons. There is a reason I left them for last. In TMC, there are very few Gorons (eight, if I remember rightly), yet in OoT, the Gorons are a thriving race with their own city, mine and temple (Goron City, Dodongo's Cavern and the Fire Temple). So where are all these places in TMC? Non-existant, so we must assume that TMC is after OoT. And not only is it after OoT, there's evidence that it's after TWW aswell. In both TWW and TMC, there are very few Gorons left. The Gorons in TMC appear to be recovering from the extreme loss of their kind caused by a disastrous event, perhaps say, the Great Flood, so we can come to the logical conclusion that TMC is after TWW.


Another important thing to note is enemies, and when the events of the TMC BS took place. Here is the stained glass windows from the TMC introduction:











They show Moblins in their TWW form, suggesting that TMC is near TWW in the timeline. But more importantly, the windows show land-walking Octoroks. This has great significance because land-walking Octoroks did not develop until sometime after the Flood and TWW, since TWW is the last game to feature water-dwelling Octoroks. If land-walking Octoroks were around at the time of the Hero of Men, then the Hero of Men story happens after TWW, ergo, TMC is after TWW.


Another important thing to note is the lack of knowledge of the Triforce in TMC. Not only is it never mentioned once, it's never even mentioned by one of it's synonyms (power of the gods, golden power etc). The closest thing to a mention of the Triforce in TMC is a book entitled "Triumph Forks" in the library. This is a clear reference to TWW, and even in TWW, most people who had knowledge of such a thing called it the Triumph Forks. This suggests that TMC is after TWW.


Also, a large portion of the enemies and items in TMC are the same as those from TWW, strongly hinting at a post TWW placement of TMC.


In TMC, Hyrule is depicted as being on a vast sea, as seen in the background of the Palace of Winds:



This greatly supports the post-TWW placement of TMC, seeing as this strongly hints at TMC occuring sometime after the Flood.


And finally, some evidece to support the theory of the Great Deku Tree raising old Hyrule from the depths using trees during the time between TWW and TMC. Take a look at the map of TMC:



Notice the large amount of trees all over Hyrule. There are a considerably larger amount than there were in OoT. Notice that the biggest group of trees (Minish Woods) is in the same place as the Forest Haven, and that the trees thin out from there on. This is supportive of the theory that the Great Deku Tree raised Hyrule, and supports a post-TWW placement of TMC.


In summary, this is the evidence against a pre-OoT placement of TMC:

• People called humans rather than Hylians.
• Hyrule only very recently been unified for the first time in OoT, preventing TMC from coming before it.
• Very different races in OoT and TMC.
• Process of evolution works with TWW-TMC, but not with TMC-OoT.
• Knowledge of the Triforce is against TMC-OoT.
• Enemies and items near identical to TWW, and very different from OoT.
• Hyrule is an island on a vast sea in TMC, which is unlikely to be so if TMC is pre-Flood.

There is a lot going for a post-TWW placement of TMC, and from my experiences of debating with people that believe TMC to be before OoT, there isn't that much evidence for that placement, and what evidence their is is questionable and open for interpretation. Hopefully this article will give you some new thoughts about where to place TMC in your timeline.

|Sentient|

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