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The Legendary Puzzle: A Linear History of the Master Sword

Article by The Wolfess

Sections Five and Six of this article contain unmarked SS spoilers.

The legendary Blade of Evil’s Bane, the Master Sword, has become an increasingly central trademark of the Zelda series since its first appearance in A Link to the Past. The sword has changed colors, lost its power, regained its power, been enshrined in temples, and lost in the forest. So far, every incarnation as been used to seal or slay Ganondorf, King of Evil and possessor of the Triforce of Power, and wielded by Link, a no-name boy from some small town chosen for a big destiny, in order to save a Princess, Zelda, and her land of Hyrule. The Master Sword is an important part of what is now called The Zelda Formula.

What we know of the basic plot of the upcoming Wii Zelda game, Skyward Sword, is that it will reveal the true origin of the Master Sword. Since the legendary sword is such a key part of the new game, let’s look at the sword’s history in past games to see how Skyward Sword might link in and add to what we already know about the sword’s creation and properties.

Section One: Incarnations and Properties

The Master Sword - ALttP

First Appearance: A Link to the Past

  • Red handle
  • The blade could be tempered, giving it greater strength each time. This act of strengthening it in a forge changed its colors with each upgrade.
  • There were two possible upgrades that could be made to the Master Sword.
  • Found covered in vines and old-looking in a pedestal in the Lost Woods.
  • It can only be drawn after obtaining the three talismans (courage, wisdom, and power).
  • Repels evil
  • Said to be crafted by the Seven Sages in the Imprisoning War to seal Ganon in the Dark World (once the Sacred Realm). When in the Dark World, it appears to be a land trapped in an eternal twilight.
  • Left in the Pedestal

Ocarina of Time

Second Appearance: Ocarina of Time

  • Blue handle
  • The blade gets stronger as you collect the six sages’ medallions.
  • Located in an early incarnation of the Temple of Time (judging by its small size).
  • Only drawn after obtaining three spiritual stones: Forest, Fire, and Water.
  • These coincide with the three Goddesses: Farore, Courage, Green, Emerald. Nayru, Wisdom, Blue, Sapphire. Din, Power, Red, Ruby.
  • Repels evil
  • Very mysterious backstory. Possibly crafted by the sages.
  • Seals the entrance to the Sacred Realm.
  • Left in the Pedestal

Third Appearance: The Wind Waker

  • Blue Handle

    The Wind Waker

  • The sages prayers power the blade. There used to be six sages, but only two remain. The wings “unfold” with the first sage’s prayers. The blade glows with the second sage’s prayers.
  • Located in a pedestal in the “basement” of Hyrule Castle under a statue of Ocarina of Time Adult Link. Stained glass windows depict the six Ocarina of Time sages.
  • Drawn after collecting three orbs that raise the Tower of the Gods: one green (forest, courage, Farore), the second red (fire, power, Din), and the third blue (water, wisdom, Nayru).
  • Repels evil
  • Backstory unknown. Presumed to be the same sword as in Ocarina of Time.
  • Seals Ganondorf’s powers. Called the “key” to unlock or lock his powers.
  • Left in Ganondorf’s forehead at the bottom of the ocean, turning Ganondorf to stone and killing him. Presumably lost for the rest of that timeline.

Fourth Appearance: Twilight Prncess

Twilight Princess

  • Blue handle with gold trim and greenish tint on the grip.
  • Not powered by any outside force—power is inherent in the blade.
  • Does receive additional power in the Twilight Realm from two Sols, which cause the blade to be able to drive away Dark Twilight Magic.
  • Located in a pedestal in the ruins of the Temple of Time, in the depths of the Lost Woods.
  • Drawn without needing to collect anything. Insead, there are three tests given to the Hero: First a chase through the woods being followed by monsters (Courage), second, the task of defeating the guardian of the Temple and his minions (Power), and third, solving the puzzle with the sacred statues (Wisdom). Zelda’s lullaby is needed to initiate the tests.
  • Repels evil. Also cleaves evil from pure things, thereby cleansing and purifying them.
  • Backstory unknown.
  • Seals nothing, but acts as a key to time itself. “Unlocks” the entrance to the past AND to the secret depths of the Temple of Time.
  • Left in the Pedestal

Section Two: Chronology and Why

Ocarina of Time shows the sword in an actively used early Temple of Time, judging by the small size and simple construction of the Temple. This dates it before Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. Aunuma’s confirmed Split Timeline theory shows that The Wind Waker is after the Adult ending of Ocarina of Time, whereas Twilight Princess is after the Child ending.

In Twilight Princess, the sword is in the ruins of a more elaborate, larger, later Temple of Time. These ruins are in a forest called the Lost Woods. In Child OoT, the legend of the hero who was to draw the sword was never fulfilled or even needed it seemed. Though the sword was honored for a long time, eventually the legend was lost and the sword’s value forgotten. Hyrule Castle Town relocated and left the unnecessary artifact behind. The legendary sword was forgotten by all but the Sages and the Royal House (descendants of Princess Zelda).

In A Link to the Past, the sword is also located in the Lost Woods. However the forest has grown so much over time that the temple ruins no longer exist. The pedestal exists, and the sword is overgrown with vines. The blade appears old and rusted, and the blue hilt has discolored—looking red on the grip and unpainted steel elsewhere. The sword is revived when it is pulled, but retains its discolored appearance, and it is able to be “upgraded” by modern swordsmiths. These facts place it after Twilight Princess, and as the last known incarnation of the sword thus far.

The Wind Waker sword was located in the same pedestal, but Hyrule Castle needed to be rebuilt elsewhere after Ganondorf’s Tower and lava pit replaced the old one. They rebuilt it over top of the sword chamber where the old Temple of Time was located. As the key to Ganondorf’s release and his powers, it was meant to be hidden completely and guarded by the royal family. OoT Adult Link is honored in the castle and blocks the entrance.

Section Three: The Sword and Ganondorf’s Demise

In the two latest games, Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker, Ganondorf is presumed killed, not sealed. Let’s take a look at how this appears to happen and the sword’s role in it.

In the Wind Waker, the Master Sword is to integrally linked to Ganondorf’s powers and life source that it turns him to stone and kills him. It is possible that for Ganondorf to remain dead the sword has to be left in his corpse forever.

Ganondorf, with the help of the Triforce of Power, has become a God-like spirit with no body of its own. He is locked in the Twilight Realm, a force of pure energy and power, because of the Sages’ actions. The Master Sword was not involved. At the end of Twilight Princess, Link impales Ganondorf on the Master Sword. Many assume him to be dead, however Zant says that as long as Ganondorf is still in this world Zant can’t be killed. We see Ganondorf still breathing, but after the Triforce of Power leaves that body, Zant cracks his own neck, thereby “killing” Ganondorf.

It is possible that Zant’s body was the host for Ganondorf’s spirit in the light world, but was only temporary. When Zant broke his own neck, Ganondorf’s spirit returned to its prison in the Twilight Realm, which is later called the Dark World. His spirit and other Twili begin to take animal-like forms because of the severity of the evil and greed in the Realm caused by Ganondorf’s influence. As Ganondorf—now the pig-like Ganon—grows in power be finds a new puppet from the Light World itself and a new way to escape the polluted Sacred Realm. At the end of a Link to the Past the two worlds remain separate and Gannon is defeated, but there is no guarantee that he is dead forever.

Section Four: Another Possible Origin Story

I throw this in here as speculation because of the irony of the sword backstory in this game and the new information we learned from Skyward Sword. It is not fact, but something to consider.

The Minish Cap contains a legend regarding a sword the Picori supposedly give to the Hero of Men, and a Light Force embodied in the sword and in the Princess Zelda. Darkness is overrunning the world, and a sword with a blue hilt is given to the Hero of Men from the sky. He drives the evil out of the world with this sword and an age of peace comes about, ruled over by the Princess who embodies the “Light Force” (obviously referring to the Triforce of Wisdom). In the window where the Hero of Men receives the sword from the sky there is also a golden triangular light force over the sword being given to the Hero. This could be the Triforce of Courage, which further links the sword in the legend to the Master Sword carried only by the one who has the Triforce of Courage.

This is supposedly the origin story of the Four Sword, which is the sword in the game, however I find it curious that the hilt of the complete and triumphant sword in the ancient stained glass windows is blue. The “Picori Sword” locked in the chest protected by the Royal family also has a blue hilt, but this sword has no power. Each time Link restores a portion of the sword’s power to it, this sword changes colors to that element’s color (green, red, and blue ironically) and gives Link the ability to split himself. By the time the fourth element is obtained, the handle of the sword with all of its power restored to it is GOLD, not BLUE.

Therefore although the game is indeed telling the origin story of the Four Sword, the legend depicted in the Stained Glass fits better with the Master Sword. There is no mention of multiplying selves in that story—in fact, the power that the sword in the legend gives the Hero of Men is the power to drive (or repel) evil out of the world. This is the trademark power of the Master Sword.

The Kingdom in The Minish Cap revolves around folk tales and legends of the Picori (or the Minish). The sword given to them by the Minish, as they see it without power locked in its chest, has a blue hilt. It makes sense, therefore, why the people of the Minish Cap confused the unpowered Four Sword with the legend of the Master Sword. They are both found in pedestals and both help the Hero to drive out evil from the world.

If there truly was a mistake in sword identification, then the legend in the Minish Cap is the first time that the origin story of the Master Sword shows the sword coming from the sky. I believe this makes it predate Ocarina of Time because this legend is closer to what we know of the truth.

Section Five: Skyward Sword

From the very first released trailer and interviews with Miyamoto, it has been common knowledge that this new game is the true Origin Story of the Master Sword. This changes the chronology.

What we know of the sword in Skyward sword thus far:

• It is originally called the Skyward Sword and is located in Skyloft.
• It has a spirit of its own that speaks to and connects with Link (perhaps for the first time of all the Links).
• It later becomes the Master Sword.

This connects the Master Sword with The Minish Cap’s legend, which shows the sword coming from the sky. This also would explain why only Link can wield the sword, because if the spirit of the original sword chose Link or bonded to Link it would only allow itself to be wielded by someone with his spirit. The incarnations of Link across different time and different games all have the spirit of the same Hero that first wielded the Master Sword, and therefore it allows them to wield it again.

Most backstories say that the Master Sword was forged by the Sages, which we now know is not exactly the truth. It could be the truth, however, if we look closely at some small details we obtain in various games and how they might be reflected in Skyward Sword.

Section Six: Origin Theory

The Wind Waker stresses a certain racial separation between Hylians and Humans, as evidenced by Hylian’s pointed ears. After learning about that separation we begin to notice that many games have these two different types of people in them, including OoTMM, WW, PHST, and TP. The Sages are Hylians, as well as Zelda (and presumably the rest of the Royal Family), and Link. Keep this in mind as you read the rest.

In Twilight Princess, Shad talked about a race that lives in the sky who had a large hand in creation of technology, the world of Hyrule in general, and even in “creating” Twilight Princess Hylians. The race that Shad calls the Oocca are the closest to the Goddesses according to the book of legends that Shad has translated.

These bird-like creatures live on a floating island above the clouds (what remains of Skyloft?). They can barely talk, and have no knowledge of even simple technology or potions (as evidenced by the shopkeeper). The Temple they supposedly created on that island is literally falling apart as Link explores it, such is the state of its dilapidation. The Oocca wander around it clucking and flapping like highly evolved cuckoos. They could not possibly be the race referred to in the legends.

In most other games, such as A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, and possibly The Wind Waker, legends say that Hylians are the race closet to the goddesses because of their ears. According to legend, these large ears are said to be able to hear the voices of the Goddesses like whispers. It makes sense, then, that the Hylians are the race truly spoken of in the book. How did Shad and his father mistake it for the Oocca then?

Perhaps a particularly inventive man made a contraption that allowed him to fly, where he discovered one of the islands inhabited by the Oocca. He connected that with the rumors/legends of Skyloft and creation, then wrote this down in a book. This book is probably written in a Hylian script still relatively close to the original language spoken in Skyloft. Later researchers, like Shad and his father, assume that the language is that of the Oocca being written about, hence Twilight Princess’s legends with Oocca creators being the closest to the Goddesses.

That theory aside, however, what does all of this tell us about Skyward Sword and the Master Sword itself? The following is one possibly theory.

The Hylian race originally lived in Skyloft, where they heard the voice of the Goddesses regularly and were involved in much advanced technology, magic, and creation. The Skyward Sword was one of these creations. Working together with the Goddesses, the sensitive and talented Hylians created a sword with a soul for some currently unknown purpose.

The humans with round ears, however, lived in the dark, evil world below the clouds. As we know, one day the Skyward Sword chooses Link and takes him to the Dark World to purify it and defeat its evil. Perhaps during the events of the game the Hylian Sages did do something to the sword to make it repel evil specifically for this task. The sages are from Skyloft.

The Skyward Sword, now enhanced with the ability—purpose in fact—to repel evil from the world below is now the Master Sword. Link’s job is to use this sword to purify the new world, soon to be Hyrule, of evil so that the Hylians of Skyloft can begin to settle there. With the world purified by the events of Skyward Sword, Hylians begin to colonize the new world. They build many things and intermarry with the humans already there.

The sword that enabled the Hylians to come and freed the Humans from oppression is put in a pedestal in a temple called the Temple of Time and protected by three seals coinciding with the power of the three goddesses. It is kept “powered up” as the Master Sword with the ability to repel evil by the sages who gave the sword that ability in the first place.

Since the Hylians are no longer living in the world above the clouds they begin to lose their ability to hear the Goddesses. Intermarriage with humans is also a cause. Any memory of Skyloft is almost completely lost with time, and what really happened becomes a legend with many versions, as legends usually have. The earliest version of the legend is probably that depicted in The Minish Cap where the Master Sword comes from the sky. This version of the legend included the Hero and the Princess, signaling that not only will Link be in Skyward Sword, Zelda will be present as well.

Later creation stories forget about the sky all together. They only remember the Hylian sages part in it and consider that its creation. The Hero meant to wield it becomes a key part of the legend as well, hence why people expect a hero to appear in times of great evil to return peace. The events of Ocarina of Time solidify the role of the Princess and the great evil, Ganondorf, in the legend. By this time we have what we now know as the Zelda Formula, or the Legend of Zelda.

Section Seven: An Extra Consideration

I want to bring us back to the key difference in the latest incarnation of the Master Sword: A Link to the Past. It is the only sword that can be manipulated and strengthened by a force run by non-Hylian people. They change its appearance with its upgrades as well, which is unheard of.

Judging by the state of the “temple” and the corroded state of the sword itself, A Link to the Past takes place a LONG time after Twilight Princess. The descendants of the sages—the maidens—still exist, thereby still granting the sword some inherent power to repel evil, but they no longer actively pray for it or infuse it with magic. Without this protection and due to the severe decline of magic use in the world (as evidenced by Twilight Princess), the Master Sword does experience some corrosion by natural causes.

Due to this “decline” of sorts the sword loses some of its power – or perhaps some of its inner soul – and can be manipulated by human hands.

Conclusion

The Master Sword will always be, I expect, a key element in the Zelda Series. It is Link’s weapon, period. Any other sword he uses is just not quite right. Now that an entire game is being dedicated to the history of the sword, we can only expect an increase in its use and importance in future games.

It will be very exciting to see how Skyward Sword is similar to and different from the various origin stories learned about in past games. Whether it’s similar to the theories drawn up in this article or not is beside the point, but it’s worth it to theorize what connections might be made. Please leave your thoughts in the comments section below, or discuss your own theories and opinions on our forums!

  • Thareous33

    Great job, Wolfess! I love the articles you make; they are so enjoyable to read. (I think this about the articles everyone writes). Yes I believe the MC legends will play part in Skyward Sword ( and hope they do as long as Princess Zelda takes a role in it). The way you put up the timeline theories makes sense to me. Keep up the awesome work! I <3 it!

    • Chad

      I agree

  • hyRULE-S

    That was a great article! You definitely did your homework:)
    When you said “The Hero meant to wield it becomes a key part of the legend as well, hence why people expect a hero to appear in times of great evil to return peace.”— It made me think of the intro story of Wind Waker, when everyone expected the Hero to show up again, although he didn’t.
    Is there any explanation why he didn’t show up?

    • linkdude101

      Ah, that would be because of the timeline split. Adult Link was sent back to his time, so there was no Hero left.

      • Chad

        What doesn't make sense to me is how ganon was defeated early in the other part of the timeline so link is able to go on a quest.

      • Hydra

        Ganondorf, in the adult timeline, had the advantage of a surprise attack. If Link told Zelda to warn her father, it would have taken away one of Ganondorf's advantages and they could have arrested him while he was residing in the castle.

      • Chad

        That makes a lot more since thanks

    • randomguy

      Zelda sent Link back to his childhood in Oot. With Link in another age, there was no Link to save hyrule hence the wind waker.

  • Jake

    This is very well thought out. I like that you presented multiple options and theories, it has something for everyone!

  • ibrahim

    I would also have to agree with "Thareous 33", "Hyrule-S" it open up more interpretations on the real origins of not only the "Master Sword" but also possibly the 1st Link & Zelda in the series & every other Link & Zelda are the descendents of them either through marriag by their own free will of choice/by fate that they were chosen to marry to try & keep the Hylian blood line pure.

    • SweetLie

      Inbreeding? Personally, I think each Zelda are all descendants of the same family, but Link could just be a random hylian boy who was chosen by the Goddesses. But that's just by theory. Also, in no way does Zelda always have to marry Link. One theory is that at the end of Ocarina of Time, he ends up with Marin and that would explain his origin in Twilight Princess as a rancher. The only time he really ends up with Zelda is at the end of AoL, and we don't even know what happened after that kiss behind the curtains.

      • STUFF2o

        It's implied that Link and Zelda end up together in ST, because of the adventure they had together, the hand-holding, and Link supposedly calling Zelda from his train (with his whistle) at the end.

      • MegaLinkX

        I couldn't tell you the name of the religion, but its followers believe that when the head of their order dies, his spirit is reincarnated at that exact moment in a newborn. Link could very well be the same situation. Hell, Instead of being a hylian boy, Link's spirit COULD reincarnate in a young gerudo woman. Never know.

  • Paffe

    Whew, that was a long article!

  • desiré

    …many things you stated as "facts" are SO WRONG.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/lockx lockx

      Dude. Open your eyes. It's a great article.
      And who knows it might be proven right

      which would make You "SO WRONG"

      • desiré

        Dude. Open your eyes. A mountain can't move. A sword can, instead.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

      Which points stated as facts are actually wrong? Everyone would love to hear your actual opinion on the article! :]

      • desiré

        well, it's indeed a good article, but honestly it would be better if the writer paid more attention.
        1. Sacred Grove confused with Lost Woods. Not much of a mistake, but sure it's inaccurate.
        2. Who says Hyrule Catle Town was rebuilt? It's a theory (a VERY UNLIKELY theory, given the exact same landmarks in the same position), here is given as fact.
        3. Light Force is NOT "obviously" the Triforce of Wisdom. Proof? Quote? None. There's nothing in TMC that seems to point that LF=TOW. So… I am blond and I wear sunglasses, I am OBVIOUSLY Lady Gaga.
        4. Who says Twilight Realm and Sacred Realm are the same? Ingame evidence seems to point out the opposite. Twili turning into animals?! What?! fan fic here.
        Etcetera. These are a few of the flaws and inconsistance I found reading the article.

      • LuX

        I have to agree with some of this, it makes more sense that a second temple was built and the sword was moved not a whole town moved.
        But the Lost woods could be sacred grove, it is a long time after they were known as the lost woods maybe it was renamed.
        The light force is the triforce or part of the triforce, but saying it's obviously the Triforce of Wisdom id abit of a stretch, lets not forget the original game featured TWO Triforce not one, named as such because it was a tri-sided shape or tirangle, not until the second game when the Triforce of courage was introduced were all three pieces considered the TRIFORCE (also look at the name of the pieces 'Triforce of courage' it enotes triforce to a singular piece meaning that each piece is a triforce and in actual fact there are THREE triforce) And I totally agree Twilight realm and sacred realm are not the same, why would the sages banish people to the sacred realm? It makes no sense, although there indications they are one of the same, but I believe there two sides of one coin sort of like Heaven and hell (I'm not implying there the afterlife ¬.¬)

        Anywho I liked the article for the most part although I do think you bent some facts to fit your theories, you must always bend theories to fit fact, and if it comes from the game it comes from Nintendo making it fact. Therefore I'm afraid I still stand by the Oocca lol.
        Besides maybe the Oocca weren't always birds? Or maybe there a race left behind when the creators of the Hylians died?

      • Space Duck

        I have to agree on the Sacred Realm not being the Twilight Realm because of the whole banishing thing and because in ALTTP some pink ball dude in the Dark World (changed sacred realm) says that your form changes to whats in your heart. But, in TP all the dudes turned into monsters or stayed as themselves.

        Another thing I thought I might point out is you left out Majora's Mask. It comes directly after OoT so I'm not saying it's a big deal, (since it is only three days).

      • The Wolfess

        If these came off as suggested facts I appologize. they were meant as theories, nothing more. Possibilities based off of visual asthetic in many cases (such as the light force–based off the picture of it in the stained glass window. Or the Twilight realm being the Dark realm because of the similar color of the sky. Just theories.)

  • k

    It’s a ****ing game!!! Good, yes, but a game!! It’s designers don’t even bother in stories, they make the game and once they have the game as they want it, they throw in a ramdom story. Period.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

      You mean to say that Zelda is a series of… *games*?

      Good lord! I had no idea!
      :P

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/GoldenChaos Jason Rappaport

      Y'know, people actually do put love and care into the storyline of a game ;)… it's their work, so don't just dismiss it as a "game" in the sense that it's a random fun thing made for kicks. Games can be genuine works of art that have intense amounts of care and hard work put into them, and if you don't understand that you don't understand video game development!

      Game developers are made sad by people who just toss their work aside as "just a game" :((

      • kkk

        Actually, and this is a fact stated by Miyamoto himself, story development comes after world and game design. Once those are settled, writters do their best in writing a fitting story line. Sometimes it's superb, like in "The Wind Waker," other times is pathetic like in "Twilight Princess."
        Now, of curse game designers put their best in developing the game, but Nintendo, as an enterprise, doesn't care a bit if the story makes sense or if it's fitting in a greater storyline.
        And, even though developers put all of their hearts in game designing, that doesn't make a game a "work of art." A game is a product of design that uses art as part of its developement, but is not art by itself since it responds to marketing necessities, while art responds to the artist feelings and comunication necessities. A design's purpose is to sell and make profit, while art's purpose is to comunicate an artist feelings regardless of it's commercial success. Games are designed with one purpose in mind, before anything else: to sell, and to sell stories are not necessary (games in the 80's proved that extensively).
        That's the rough true, whether you like it or not. Wishing games are a piece of art doesn't give you more understanding about game design. Quite the opossite, it makes you miss the point in what the real purpose behind game disign is.

    • LuX

      Your a Jackass I'm sorry but I'm going to University in 2 months to Major in Games Design and for you to dismiss my life and dreams as 'just a game' make you a ****ing Jackass, not just my life and dreams but that of others and the Games designers that are in the industry now.

      The first thing that happens in the development of a game is a STORY concept otherwise without a story nothing can be made from that.

      I hate ill-educated people like you, who are you to insult designers in such away? Your pathetic.

      • kkk

        Well, if you let your life and dreams be dismissed by a jackass's opinion, then you're yourself a jackass too. Games are NOT art, games are a product of design, which uses art as part of its process but is not art by itself since it responds to marketing necessities. Even Miyamoto himself has said that in their development process, story comes AFTER the game and world design.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

        Do you consider film to be an art form?

        While some movies are obviously produced solely for profit, many films are a form of artistic expression, and many (in my opinion, the best ones) combine both motivations.

        If you believe that film is art, then there is clearly an argument against any form of entertainment created with marketing necessities in mind being undeserving of the title, "art".

        If an artist's hobby becomes his or her profession, is what they create no longer art?

        How do you have the authority to state what is and is not art? You said yourself that "art responds to the artist's feelings and comunication necessities". If LuX, an aspiring game designer, develops plots for games that communicate emotions, opinions, and themes in an insightful and effective way, then is he not creating art?

      • kkk

        A game designer can try to communicate all he wants in his game design, but is limited because if the executive producer says "it doesn't pass," it won't pass regardless of all the emotion gesigners may have put on it. I love games, but I don't confuse them with art. You're right, I don't have the authority to decide what is art and what is not, but no educated and prepared artist would ever considerer a videogame a "work of art," and professional game designers don't considerer themselves artists (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99310-Miyamoto-I-Never-Said-Games-Are-Art).

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

        So because they content of their art is ultimately decided by an executive producer, it isn't quite art? I suppose I can understand that position, but let me again pose the question:

        If an artist's hobby becomes his or her profession, is what they create no longer art? For example, a photographer, sculpter or painter who begins to work on commission, creating art for other people? Do their creations cease to be art?

      • kkk

        Of course an artist can make a living on his art, but games are not art, games are designs. Design is not art. Designers don't consider themselves artists. Artists don't considerer themselves designers. Designers study at design schools. Artists study at art schools. Game design is called, hence, game design, not game artistry. I can quote a professional and well-know game designer that doesn't consider himself an artist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99310-Miyamoto-I-Never-Said-Games-Are-Art). If you can quote a professional and well-known artist that consider games are art, then I'll take back all of my sayings and shut up.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

        I know several designers – mainly graphics designers – that consider themselves artists. Hence, "graphic art".

        Also, "Designers study at design schools. Artists study at art schools." I am aware of several art schools with design programs.

        But even if I took the time to find a "professional and well-known artist" that considers videogames to be art, it wouldn't be a reason for you to retract everything you've said. You would have proof *and* I would have proof, but neither of us would be proven right.

        The problem is, you're looking at everything too stringently. Some game designers consider their work to be art – some don't. Some *gamers* consider games to be art – some don't. You stated that art is something that is used to communicate the artist's ideas and emotions. This is such a broad description, and art is such a varied and evolving concept, that it's quite silly to try and argue that something absolutely 100% is not and can never be art.

      • kkk

        Maybe you're right. My basic point is that, considering or wanting yourself to be something doesn't make you that. I may consider myself the Queen of England, but does that make me so?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

        Not that I'm aware. :P

        But it's a bit more difficult to prove someone wrong if they consider themselves an artist than if they consider themselves the Queen of England, since opinions on what is and is not art vary from person to person.

      • kkk

        As I said, maybe you're right, maybe not. Same goes to me. We're on opposite sides. I look at it too straightforwarded, while you're looking at it too broadly.

      • kkk

        By the way, trying to prove you wrong was a really nice excercise for my mind, thank you for this argument;-D
        Would you like to exchange MSN to excercise my mind in other interesting subjects that may come to mind?

      • hyRULE-S

        I'm sure he probably doesn't want your MSN because you are still just a jackass and probably have nothing interesting to say.

        If you want to exercise your mind, you could play brain age. its on the DS. Im guessing your age is around 83

      • Ted

        Oh, fanboys, it's so easy and fun to annoy you. Do you solve all of your problems with videogames? Do you date one of the residents of Animal Crossing?

      • FANBOY

        Yeah I'm a fan boy, and so are 99% of the people on this FAN SITE. duh. so why are you here?

      • Terrey

        I work in the industry, and I will tell you what you were trying to say. Games are not art, because Art is meant to be observed in the state that the artist expressed it in. Games are comprised of art, yes. The Story, the Textures, the levels, the cutscenes, these are all art. However, the game itself isn't art because it is interactive, and the player is not an observer standing outside of the work of art. The player is actually affecting the work itself from within the game, and as such, it does not fall into the category of art.

        Art inherently requires an observer by definition. If the observer interacts with the medium in any way, it cannot technically be considered art because the observer is seeing the world through his own action.

        I'm a game developer/software engineer, and I' m saying this… If I don't defend my own medium, that should tell you something.

  • ShadowHero31

    Some people say that the Master Sword IS the Picori Blade. If this is the case, then the Minish Cap CAN NOT go before Ocarina of Time, because Minish Cap tells the Orgin of the Four Sword, its sequels are FS and FSA. And because the Picori Blade (Master Sword) is shattered, it Therefore cannot go before Ocarina of Time.

    • Legendary Hero

      makes sense. Like the theory though :)

    • LuX

      Yeaaaaah but it makes more sense that theres two blades not one, I can't see the Master sword and foursword being one of the same there powers and properties are too different.

      Oh and I've been thinking the sword we saw at the E3 Demo was clearly the Master Sword…..but shouldn't he have the Skyward Sword before it is the Master sword? So what I thought was maybe the sword doesn't change like in ALttP maybe it's just renamed?

    • Light

      Hey, but what if the back story to MC does happen in skyward sword, and the blade is enshrined in the chest after A Link To The Past? it would explain the condition of the picori blade and how a normal Hylian put it in a chest in the first place! It would also explain the picori blade is master sword theory.
      And if you see the artwork of the minish holding the clover in tthe MC credits,
      his face is the same colour as the oocas ( This is not the most sound theory).

  • hyRULE-S

    "K"–
    Um why are you on this site or reading this article if you could care less about the story of Zelda? And where do you get the idea that the designers don't bother in stories??? Is your uncle Miyamoto? did you secretly develop Twilight Princess and now you have some inside scoop to how these games are made? Nintendo isn't stupid enough to create a game and then at the last minute insert some random story. Period.

    We understand its just a game. We aren't stupid.

    • X x7

      why are you ahead of k in postings if youre replying to him?

      • hyRULE-S

        I don't know what happened, lol. I was behind him.. and then somehow my post got bumped up ahead.. i was wondering the same thing myself. I just know he really pissed me off. lol

    • kkk

      I like the games and the stories, I mean, when they're well written (The Wind Waker), not when the Zelda elements are just inserted at the last minute (Twilight Princess), what I don't like is people theorizing and stating their fanboy's wet dreams as facts, or fanboys crying out for timeline coherency in a geme series where the story and timeline are second hand. Now, I don't have to be Miyamoto's nephew to know the story development comes at the end, it's been stated publicly by Miyamoto himself. Finally, Nintendo is not stupid, they're really smart at making the right moves in geme desing and marketing strategies, but stories are not their top priority, and that's so obvious in Twilight Princess (Ganondorf is there just because and kidnaps Zelda just because, Zelda appears like 10 minutes in the whole game, and Link could be a random farmer). Lately, Nintendo has even been making fun of their not caring about stories like in Super Mario Galaxy 2 ("this story takes place during a falling-star night… again… even though it's supposed to be once every hundred-years… Hey, look!! There's a Luma over there!!" narrator turns and run). So, you're right in part, Nintendo doesn't throw a story in at the last minute. Sometimes they don't even bother in writing one.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

        Why are you saying the TP story sucks? It's not like you say it is.

      • kkk

        In fact, Twilight Princess has a very good story, what annoys me is that the Zelda elements were just inserted. Ganondorf is revelead at the very end and he's not really necessary, the story was doing perfectly without him. Zelda appears like 10 minutes, then dies, then appears kidnapped by Ganondorf just because. And Link could be a random farmer… I mean, at the final confrontation, Ganondorf didn't even bother in speaking to him, he's speaking to Midna while Link's just standing there like saying "Hey, I'm here!!"
        All of that made me think that Twilight Princess was being designed as a game that had nothing to do with Zelda and then Miyamoto said "I'm not sure about this… maybe a new license won't sell well… I think it needs Nintendo's magic… I know!! Put the Zelda characters on it." And that's happened before with "Dinosaur Planet" being turned into "Starfox Adventures."

      • hyRULE-S

        I just don't understand your logic on this– Yes it happened with dinosaur planet but they wouldn't do that with Zelda. They actually care about this series and the story that goes into it. You say it annoys you when fanboys state things that they "know" as facts, but you are doing the exact same thing except on the other end.

  • Matt

    Wolfess didnt state them as “facts.”
    He/she wrote an article and you dont have to point out why his/her speculations are wrong.

  • Matt

    Nintendo actually does make the game first then tacs on a story.

    • kkk

      That's it!! Someone in this thread is informed about the real world's facts!! Alleluia!!!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

      Designing the world of a game before developing a story that suits it doesn't necessarily mean that the story is "tacked on". If I build the foundation of a house before decorating the interior, it doesn't mean that I'm going to do a crappy job of decorating. :]

      Honestly, I feel that designing a game before writing its story might make for a better story, as being able to see the game's world might make it easier to invision just what could be going on there. It would also allow for a more imaginative game world, rather than writing your story and then only creating areas and characters that are included in the plot.

      Then again, I've never designed (or had any role in creating) a game. :P

  • idaho ninja

    Also, since Link is a Kokiri in OOT, could the Kokiri be descendants of the Hylians? I don't know how they would be eternally youthful, but it would fit with everything else…

    • Paffe

      Link isn't a kokiri in OoT! He's actually a hylian!

    • Duffy

      Actually, Link is not a Kokiri in OoT. The Deku Sprout tells adult Link that Link had been brought to the forest by his HYLIAN mother where he was raised as a Kokiri.

    • http://hope-ent.com JahmaTrauma

      actually link is hylian in OOT. The "new" deku tree reveals this to link later in the game. This explains why Link grows up while the rest of the kokiri dont, and why link didnt have a fairy untill navi. he wasnt ever kokiri, he was hylian.

      • X x7

        i think he gets the point after 3 times of being told.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

        These people are relentless :P

    • kkk

      If you play the game, you'll learn Link's not a Kokiri and Kokiris are ethernally young cause they're forest spirits.

    • wildcat

      If you remember Link was not a Kokiri at all he was given to the Deku Tree by his mother but was Hylian the whole time.

  • TheMaverickk

    Great article, I only had two nit-picky issues with it in terms of referencing in theory.

    The first is that the Four Sword legend with the Hero of Men and so forth… it most likely had a picture of a Triangle because of the force gems. From what I've seen in relation to the the Four Sword is that it's power comes from different artifacts altogether. It may have a blue hilt in it's stain glass window, but that's not enough to definately say that it's the Master Sword. Look at Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks… both swords have blue hilts and uncannily look like the Master Sword. In either case though I think it's more of a visual reference then anything else.

    The second thing I wanted to point out is the Oocca… saying that they are more like advanced cuccoo, and couldn't possibly be this advanced race close to the gods. It shouldn't be forgotten that races seem to change form over time. Look at Wind Waker, in it we see the Kokiri have become the Koroks… seemingly a downplay in evolution one would think. Their form has changed and adapted according to the time, and over the course of a century.

    The Oocca could very well be a similar situation… where as by the time Twilight Princess roles around they have taken on the form of these odd looking birds who don't resemble such a legendary race. They are obviously aware of of some technology still, like the Dominion Rod, and it's connection to the sky. Just knowing about that says something in terms of their history. So who knows in Skyward Swords era they could be tall more human like, at the prime of their intelligence and life in communication of the gods. After many centuries of isolation though they were reduced to the Oocca we see in TP.

    • Terrey

      The Force gems seem to be artifacts that share the same source of power as the "Light Force", which was the initial name of the Triforce.

      And the Four sword as almost exactly the same powers as the Master Sword, time travel, beams, resistance to magical spells, etc. (See Minish Cap/Link to the Past Manual)

      But what's the source of the Master Sword's power? Well that's obvious, the Master sword itself is imbued by the power of the Gods, as is stated in a Link to the Past, and only the "Judge of Courage" (Zelda II), a hero chosen to defend the Triforce from corruption, can wield it.

      The Sages gain their power from the Light Force. They Imbue the Master Sword with its strength, The Force Gems are imbued with the light of the Light Force, and the Triforce of Courage imbues the chosen warrior with the power of the Gods, and therefore, the two swords have the same power source, and may very well not be two swords.

      However, the Master Sword has been shown to degrade in power over time… This means that it's entirely possible that the Master Sword is the Picori Sword that has lost the ability to split the bearer into four.

      Unfortunately, this would place Four Swords before OoT, which causes a conflict with Ganon's backstory. However, MC was already stated to be before OoT, and contained Ganon in pig form before his backstory would allow. And MC must fall before FS/FS:A

      …The only way the Picori sword could be the Master Sword, is if FS/FS:A fell before the events of OoT, but after the events of MC. However, the only way that Ganon could exist in MC is if Aonuma's timeline is incorrect and MC actually falls after OoT… UNLESS Ganon existed before OoT, and actually did get most of his power from the Trident (as you see his trident in the phantom Ganon fight in OoT), and was merely disguising himself as a man using his sorcery… Which is entirely possible.

  • Chad

    "Its designers don't even bother in stories, they make the game and once they have the game as they want it, they throw in a random story. Period." – K

    That doesn't necessarily mean that it's Random Nintendo thinks all of the story line out before putting it in the game. They intend to make the timeline confusing so that they can fill it in with more games as they go on making the overall picture of the timeline more clear. Aonuma shows this when he talked about the split timeline. Nintendo knows exactly what they're doing so don't start stating things that you don't know. By the way great article wolfess whenever you post something it is a great read. Keep it up!!

    • kkk

      When Aonuma talked about the splitted timeline he sounded like… "…the splitted timeline… coz it's splitted… right?? You know… there are like… two Links, aren't they?? Y-yes, it's splitted." Now, Nintendo doesn't think about the storyline, the writers do. Nintendo just throws money in hoping it will be multiplied by ten once the game's finished. The writers' work, though, comes after the game and world design, and this has been stated by Miyamoto himself. To him, the connection between the gamer and the game's world it's the most important thing in the game. Once that's settled, the writers can try their best at doing a kind of coherent storyline, which sometimes is superb (The Winf Waker) and other times is plain pathetic (Twilight Princess). Nintendo doesn't know exactly what they're doing when it comes to story, and that's been proved constantly by their "this is the true beginning of the timeline" whinch has happened trice (Ocarina of Time, then The Minish Cap, then Skyward Sword). Now, you wishing Nintendo has a great and misterious encyclopedia with all the detailed timeline, or all of you fanboy's theorizing doesn't mean you know more, it just show you're imagination is quite active, and your sense of reality quite unrealistic.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/paintthisred sugar

        "Nintendo doesn't know exactly what they're doing when it comes to story, and that's been proved constantly by their "this is the true beginning of the timeline" whinch has happened trice (Ocarina of Time, then The Minish Cap, then Skyward Sword). "

        Let's think about this for a moment.

        If Nintendo in fact creates The Minish Cap and says, "this is the beginning of the timeline", they are stating that it is the beginning of the current timeline. As the timeline currently stands (in 2004), The Minish Cap is first.

        Now it's 2010. Skyward Sword is placed right before The Minish Cap.

        This isn't really an indication of incompetence on their part. It's not like they're saying "oops wait a second lol, the minish cap comes fourth, skyward sword is first." They've simply chosen to extend, in a way, how far back the timeline begins. Obviously they don't have every single game that will ever be made planned out with its position on the timeline predetermined, but they're not just cranking out games that completely reverse previous statements that they have made about the timeline.

      • hyRULE-S

        UGh its no use arguing with this guy. In his mind he is always going to be right, and we are always going to be wrong. That is also the mindset of racists, homo-phobes, and Fidel Castro.

        Go figure.

      • Terrey

        He is right about one thing, though. Miyamoto has no idea what he's doing.

        Miyamoto stated in 1999 that OoT would be the LAST prequel to ever be made in the Zelda Series. Miyamoto also doesn't keep a decent eye on his developers' storylines. He doesn't care, but then makes these statements that are either blatantly false, or claims that the Zelda games' timelines and stories are very clearly defined, when they are not.

        …And they stuck with it… for about three years…

        Miyamoto is just the guy who came up with the characters and the world, and then defined what "IS the Zelda style". He gives the thumbs up, and shells bills out of the checkbook. That's it.

        He needs to step down from his role as spokesman. He's lost touch with not only reality, but also his fanbase.

      • Terrey

        It also has to do with the fact that Dan Oswald did a horrible job of translating much of the story of the first three Zelda games. Numerous confusions were caused by NoJ's method of first Romanizing their Japanese, then Translating it into English by a native Japanese, then having a Native English speaker reword it to fit English grammar.

        Since Miyamoto declared that all story will not contradict prior canon, and Miyamoto refuses to admit that he and his corporation are capable of error (a very Japanese trait), the mistakes were turned into "story".

        …Read the first three games' manuals. You'll see what I mean…

    • Terrey

      Oh, Nintendo knows what they are doing. It's just not what we want our Zelda games to be: A clever marketing strategy.

      It'd be nice if these games were designed so that we could love them, but they are products. If a product doesn't make money, it has failed its primary purpose.

      The writers, however, are paid to make a good story. Pissing in the primordial ooze too much pisses off the fans, and alienates your fanbase, so yes, they are trying to make a coherent timeline because their hardcore fanbase DOES care, but they, at the same time, want their games to attract a new audience, so they are working in familiar elements and simplifying things in order to make it appeal to the purists and new kids alike.

      It's marketing, guys.

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  • X x7

    you said that the spirit of the skyward sword would choose the new hero, and thats why link could only pull the sword, however, in WW, the King of Red Lions stated that Link in WW wasn't related to link in any other game, so why did the master sword choose him?

    • KamenRiderLink

      KoRL was refering to the Hero of Time from Ocarina.
      KoRL is just a king with out much magic to his name except the little bit you see in WW.
      One doesn't have to be related by blood to inherit the will and power of someone from the past.

      • X x7

        well thats what it said, i personally agree with you, im just reading the article.

    • kkk

      The Master Word din't exactly choose him. The Master Sword was powerless, maybe even spiritless, when Link found it, thus he was able to take it without being the hero chosen by gods. Later, he had to prove he was worth to be the God's Hero and collect the Triforce pieces.

      • TheMaverickk

        Actually out of technicality the Tower of the Gods was WW Link's test. That's what King of the Red Lions said. Ghodan at the end of the temple even stats that his battle with him is the final challenge.

        By the time he reaches the world under the ocean he has already been acknowledged as a chosen hero. Not to mention he had collected the 3 pearls that normally serve as the standard in being able to use the Master Sword (like in Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time).

  • Bre

    excellent article; i share the same thoughts. 2011 here we come.

  • http://afabulousfantasy.webs.com Solianna

    I just want to say that this was a great article. I'm really impressed and you've left me with many good thoughts.

  • Tayo

    One question. How could the Master Sword exist in WW if it disappeared with Adult Link at the end of OoT? When Adult Link was sent back to his time, link from that timeline seized to exist, correct? If you want the ending of Zelda sending him back, the Master Sword went with him too! Therefore, neither Adult Link nor the Master Sword should exist in that timeline. It's true that he put it back in the pedestal, but that's in the Child Timeline after he returned to his original time., so he never put it back in the pedestal in the Adult Timeline.

    • X x7

      No, Zelda didn't send him back in time with the ocarina, that wouldn't have made sense. She probably sent him to the Temple of Time for him to place the blade back, and thus, he disappeared, because he was no longer in possession of it, so Link disappeared into his real time. The sword was still there in adult Links time.

      • Tayo

        She PROBABLY did. You don't know that for sure. Plus, as show in the ending. The blue aura surrounding him from when Zelda sent him back starts to disappear as he reappears in the Temple of Time, as a child. There is no confirmation for any of this and I'm surprised that no one has taken this possibility into account. This means it's very well possible that the Master Sword doesn't exist in the Adult Timeline after this.

      • X x7

        but if zelda sent him back in time, that would mean that young link would still have the master sword, even though if he has it, he should be 7 years older. So if hes older but in the past, what would happen if he placed it in the pedastel in kid links time? go back 7 more years? No! That would make no sense at all! the most logical way to think of it is that Zelda sent him to the temple of time with the ocarina. She even said that link has to put the blade back and close the door of time, not im gonna send you back with the ocarina.

      • Tayo

        She probably sent him back to a time before he grabbed the master sword, as evidence that he hadn't met Zelda yet. Then again, he still might have known her, but it had to have been a time before Ganondorf drove her off. The point though is, she does say "give the Ocarina to me… As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it." Not, "I can use it to send you back to the temple of time". Therefore, she used the Ocarina of Time to send him back in time, not to the Temple of Time in that time period. Plus, the Master Sword was right there already still in the pedestal, so he didn't have it with him. My point is that neither of us can deny either possibilities. That means it IS possible that Master Sword might not even exist in the Adult timeline anymore.

      • Terrey

        Tayo, your logic is 90% flawed.

        By your logic, Link was sent back in time physically. In that case, he'd be an adult when he went backwards. Time itself is being manipulated, not Link.

        All of your statements are completely invalidated by the simple fact that Link isn't actually doing any travel between fixed points, but time itself is jumping back and forward.

      • Anonymous

        Zelda had to send Link with the ocarina because Link has the ocarina in Majora's Mask.

      • Tayo

        That was probably the one that Zelda gave him. At the end, it shows that he came back to the time before Ganon took over the town, so therefore, the child Zelda still has the Ocarina.

      • Terrey

        No, she doesn't, because Link had the Ocarina before he pulled the sword out.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

      The Master sword very easily could exist. Link had his whole life to put the sword back. Think of it this way: You pick up a *hypothetical* block and *hypothetical* go back in time. You wait untill you go back in time the first time and then put the block back. Voila! The block never dissapeared.

      • Tayo

        Remember the seperate timelines? The block one exist in one timeline, but in the other, it disappeared.

      • Terrey

        Let's say you have a bit of string, and the endpoint of these strings are constantly moving toward infinite. The beginning points of these strings are at a set location.

        Now, imagine you draw a dot where link drew the sword. Draw a dot where Link puts the sword back.

        Cut the string at the first dot. You now have two strings. The original string now has a new endpoint, that expands toward infinite, while the new string has a new beginning point while the end continues to expand to infinite.

        History only changes in the original timeline, but because the string was cut and separated at a specific point, the original timeline isn't actually overwriting history, it's just picking up at the end.

        Since the Master Sword didn't move through time, it merely put Link's consciousness into another fixed point on a timeline. The first time however, there was no split timeline, and therefore, the sword acted as though Link was in a state of suspended animation for 7 years, thus causing changes you make in the child timeline to occur in the future, but to move backward, the Master Sword actually relocate Link's consciousness in time. it didn't actually create the alternate timeline, it merely moved Link between the two preset timelines.

        You see, since you can travel back and forward, if Link spends 2 years in the future, then goes back to the past, he will always go back to the same fixed point in the past. However, if he takes the sword out again, he actually moves the 7 years PLUS the 2 years when he last placed the sword. Meaning, Link IS moving between two timelines, otherwise changes he made in the past would not take effect, and time is passing in both timelines concurrently. Every change that is made in the past is tacked on to the beginning point of the new string because the time that you made the cut is changed, as both timelines are re-synchronized every time the Master Sword is drawn.

        What did create the final alternate timeline is the CHANGE that occurred in the original timeline that undoes Ganon's influence over the world, and the fact that the Hero of Time never again draws the blade to travel forward in time. However, this does not undo the alternate timeline, as it has already been established.

      • Terrey

        This is assuming that the action of going back in time in the first place takes place on the same timestream as the future event.

        If you go into the future, take a block, and then go back in time, there would be two positive states of matter for that block. Since matter can exist in all qantum states at the same time, this is entirely possible.

        However, this would create an infinite looping event. If you went forward in time to take the block back in time, an infinite loop occurs, because every time you wait around to watch that block be taken by your past self, the cycle completes and restarts.

        This is not, however, what happens in OoT, as you can read in my post below. The timestream is linked every time Link goes forward, but if goes back, both timestreams continue to exist independently of one another.

        In other words, Link isn't actually taking anything anywhere. His consciousness is redirected to another time, and therefore, the Master Sword exists in both time streams because these quantum states are no longer linked within this dimension, no self-fixing required!

        If the action of going back in time actually creates an alternate timestream however, you will go back to find yourself leaving a second block behind, and both blocks will continue to exist for all time, as their quantum state has already been confirmed to be existing at the same time.

        …And then Schroedinger gets all involved, and the argument becomes messy…

  • Moriquendi

    Excellent article! It was really interesting to read.
    Thank you for writing and sharing.

  • Zarco

    Great article, I agree with almost all of it. The one thing I don't think is that LttP is on the child timeline. I think it must go on the AT because it speaks of Sages' descendants. They have no descendants in the CT because the sages were never awakened, the sages are those creepy spirits from TP.

    • Chad

      The sages were killed in OoT by ganon that's why you had to awaken new ones since ganon never gained power in the cild version he couldn't go to the sacred realm and kill the sages. Plus in Oot they said that the reason that the new sages couldn't hear the call was because of the evil inside the dungeons so new sages could be awakened anyway.

  • Eximius

    Hey! did you know that King Zora from Oracle of Seasons can create a Master Sword???

    • kkk

      Do you, people, need more facts that Nintendo doesn't care too much about storyline coherency??

      • X x7

        DID YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE HERE WHO ARE OFFENDED BY YOUR NAME?!?!

      • Ted

        Did you know those people are offended by being called black? Did you know there are people that are offended by people that write in capitals?

      • Space Duck

        Dude, the KKK is long gone. Nobody cares anymore. Maybe those black people who are offended need to stop being so paranoid and realize that racism is over and nobody is trying to offend you.

  • Majora

    The legend of the master sword lives on!!!

  • COLLEEN!!!!!

    Awesome article, but the theory with the Oacca really takes the cake! It all fits so perfectly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the story Nintendo goes with!! You're right about the Oacca… I always thought they were kind of… blub.

  • Squiggy

    Actually if i remember correctly, there was an interview with Aonuma some time ago after Skyward Sword was shown (in concept art form at last year's E3) that this game would in fact be another century after Twilight Princess. I can't remember where I found the article though.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

      No. I think that was wayyyyyy before skyward sword's reveal. And that was a "what if" situation

  • Bored-mask

    I like your thought process but I do have two points to argue. The first is that the Picori Blade has different attributes when compared to the Master Sword. While the Master Sword can slay evil the picori blade, and as an extension the Four Sword, has proven on multiple occassions to only seal it it some physical container. It is also important to note that even the Minish characters in the game refer to the sword as their own creation. It is also important to note that the Light Force lacks the power that the Triforce possesses. Vaati supposedly possessed the vast majority of it and yet he was defeated by Link who possessed no magical artifact except the Picori Blade. Moving on to my second point. I agree with TheMavverick, the Ooca could not just be a race of chicken’s living in the ruins of a Hylian civilization. Their knowledge of ancient technology not to mention their residual magical teleportation abilities hint at their glorious past. The Ooca could have easily become too advanced for their own good and grown lazy. The fact that their children are shaped like human heads hints at a gradual devolution as the Ooca began using teleportation, technology/magic and flight to move and perform labor and ceased to require limbs. Unfortunately this did not halt the decay of their creations. I personally believe that Skyward sword reinforces the Ooca creating the Hylians because Hylians, with their humanoid qualities, are suited to living on land not thousands of feet above the earth where they could fall to their death by forgetting that the edge was closer then they thought while the Ooca, with their Bird-like qualities, could easily navigate among the clouds. Also the Ooca’s past could be an explanation for all of the so called “divine” sites in Hyrule. Why was a clawshot found in the Water temple along with a plethora of advanced plumbing technology? The Zoras live in a CAVE and can be easily incapacitated by freezing water. These are not the signs of a civilization capable of such feats.I even have trouble believing in the “Three Goddesses” nonsense in their legends. They are not as all powerful as their creation, the Tri-Force suggests. They obviously exist as magical beings but could not be ranked as Deities if a thief from the desert could turn their sacred land into a smoldering wreck. But I’m rambling, in my opinion the Ooca could have just as easily used their skill with magic and advanced metalworking skills to create a sentient, powerful sword for the humanoid Hylians to use. Furthermore your detailing of the sword’s decay in A Link to The Past links to my earlier hypothesis that Ooca creations decay over time.

    • Chad

      If you would look at objects when they are lefrt in the rain they tend to rust and corrode okay? Now think of a sword that has been left in the rain for a couple hundred maybe thousand years it hasn't started to rust and corrode until Alttp. The only possible reason isa suggested in WW that the master sword loses its power when it is not prayed for that explains why the master sword rusts and corrodes. Furthermore could the Ooca really devolve that much it's pretty hard to go from an advanced civilization to small hardly able to fly chickens that don't even know what they're selling in the store plus half the population doesn't talk they just gobble like mindless chickens how can you go that low
      as to lose your ability to speak and do any suuch task except teleport.

      • TheMaverickk

        On the flip side who says they aren't communicating? Gobbles and clucks may simply be their native tongue now and how they communicate with others. They haven't seen a Hylian for hundreds of years (hundreds before OoT and the hundred afterwards) so they may not speak it now. There are Oocca though that can speak obviously, they must have learned is some way. Considering only one has been down in Hyrule though where did the few others learn to speak? Probably because at one time they all knew the language at some point in the past.

        In terms of evolution I stand by the fact that since the world of Zelda is magical evolution or de-evolution could easily occur in a hundred years. The Kokori became the Koroks, and the Zora seemingly became the Rito… hundreds of years after Ocarina of Time.

      • Chad

        That's true but it's hard to imagine something becoming stupid as time goes on.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

      Its not that demeaning to get frozen in ice. If you were swimming and the ice froze, would that make you a wimp? Not really. So dont diss the zoras.

      And its Triforce, not Tri-Force

  • APEXMAN

    ^^ and this is why i dont get into piecing together or trying to make sense of zelda games.

  • Rid

    Interesting ideas and well thought out, but way too much speculation to make sense.
    The most likely case is that these games are all ‘legends’ (hence the name of the series) and are basically similar to tales told of the past. Inaccuracies will appear and it is possible that some games take place at the same point in history according to these stories. There are way too many inconsistencies within the Zelda series to really convince me that they are all actually meant to be one solid story with a fully thought out timeline.

  • GenoKID

    I still don't see how TMC can come first. Wasn't the Triforce placed in the Sacred Realm? And the Picori blade was transformed into the Four Sword, so it couldn't also be the MS, unless it took place after.

    And the fact that the Master Sword seals Ganondorf's power in TWW has made it easier for me to place TP before TWW, sealing Ganon until it's removed.

    Oh yes, one other thing. In ALttP, the sword us in the NW corner of the map, and in TWW, it ends up on Ganon's tower, which is presumably under the Forsaken Fortress, in the NW corner of the map. Coincidence? (It IS my biggest flaw in MY timeline, though.)

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

      You cant really put TP before WW becuase they are in different timelines.

      • GenoKID

        Only according to Aonuma's interview. Those interviews have frequently contradicted their old comments, so I ignore them, mostly. I build timelines solely on game evidence, and I presonally think TP fits better on TWW's timeline.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

        Go to zeldatimeline.com it very confusingly makes sense.

  • Elijah

    Really good aritcle! I have some doubts on some of your theorys, but you do have evidence to back you up which is really good. We will see what the truth is when the game comes out, I'M SO EXCITED!!!

  • Tsubasa_Zero

    Nice article. A lot makes sense. One thing though doesn't add up. If the Skyloft people had advance technology and went below and live there they would have build technology there as well. But they didn't. They only piece left was the spinning top from TP.

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  • Cipher

    Great article my one problem is the idea that skyward sword details the creation of the mastersword. They said it becomes the mastersword, in my opinion this doesn't mean it is the first time we see the mastersword. On another note if SS is first in the timeline then neither Ganon nor the Triforce can be present as they were first involved with Link in OoT. OoT depicts Ganon, Link and Zelda obtaining the Triforce from the sacred realm which is how it becomes a present feature later on. Personally I hope that Ganon isn't in SS as I think he's become a little overused

    • Dan

      I hope you're right. Ganon should not even have been born yet, but they may use a male Gerudo villain that came before him (I hope not). The Triforce may still have a role though to some degree. It does exist at this point and has strong ties to the Master Sword.
      It would be cool if they were to tie it to AoL and make mention of the very first Zelda who was put into a coma-like state by her brother, who then lamented doing so and decreed that all princesses of Hyrule would henceforth be named "Zelda".

  • Jumpman

    Good article.
    But there’s a problem with the timeline.
    Skyward Sword can’t take place before Minish Cap, because in Skyward Sword, Link already wears his cap. Minish Cap wasn’t supposed to explain the origins of Link’s cap?

    • Cipher

      no. Minish Cap featured Ezlo as Links hat but in the end he turns back to normal. Different titles have different reasons. In OoT and MM Link's clothes (including the hat) were of Kokiri design, all the Kokiris wore clothes of the same style. In WW (and by extension PH) and TP the clothes are based of ones worn by a different hero (Possibly the one from OoT or MC) but the reasoning behind Links hat varies between games and some games offer no reason other than it being the clothes he wears

    • nxg

      No, like Cipher said, and don't forget that the games don't have an official link to each other, besides OOT -> MM there is no other real connection between the games, and Nintendo (especially Miyaomoto) already said that the games aren't made with any timeline in mind, if anything they just borrow elements to create more of a background (I'm not sure about the latest games, though I think the story there is all Aonuma's doing, but for example most of the story in Link's Awakening was created around what Miyamoto designed, he didn't want too much of a story).

      • TheMaverickk

        Well Wind Waker certainly has connections to Ocarina of Time. The stain glass windows featuring the sages, and one that even depicts Ganondorf in the final form from OoT. The images aren't even ambiguous, it's a clear reference to OoT.

        Twilight Princess is actually a lot more ambiguous in terms of connections to OoT. I mean you have the sages, but other then the medallion icons they are just white ghostly figures, so it's not clear their connection to other sages. The Master Sword is located in the ruins of the Temple of Time, and the sword gives you access to the temple in the past. Yet it's still a vague connection considering the location and how the Temple appears (no pedestal of time, statues in the hall ect.).

        This is just the norm in terms of Zelda continuity.

  • nxg

    Good thoughts on the timeline for the sword.
    Don't forget though that the question is who exactly carried on the legends, a lot of details are forgotten or simpley never known.
    In most games the hero is not really known at all by the people, my guess is that the most involved characters shared the tales of the hero with the local people and word spread. Of course most people end up realizing the evil and destruction around them, and of course somehow get to know that the evil is defeated.
    The Adult OOT is the strongest impression of a history, seen in Wind Waker (a lot of details are still known, even though that the world changed so much), of course most of the history is known through the soul of the kind that lived on (his most active role in the series, with Zelda living on outside of the ways of her lineage, most likely because the king couldn't pass it on).

    The Skyward Sword was crafted into the Master Sword by Sages (probably still living in the Sacred Realm). The sword is bonded with the Courage-Triforce (not "directly" with Link), I think, the eternal life of Link, Zelda and Ganon seem to be through their deep bond to the Triforce parts. Wasn't her some game in which ganon wanted to get the master sword (might have been OOT)?
    The changes in the appearance of the Sword are may be signs of the recrafting of the Master Sword by the Sages, with them being in the Sacred Realm playing an important role.

    Somewhere on the way from OOT (in which the Sages go to the Sacred Realm) to Twilight Princess the Sages seem to leave the Sacred Realm.

    With the Sword not being recrafted by the Sages (over a long period of time, seeing that the Sages have again to gain the knowledge of their part, assuming they just learn about it themselves and the lore of Twilight Princess mostly lost) the Effect given by the Sages weared of over time, Link with his deep bond to the Triforce of courage reawakes (part of?) the Sword.
    Also, if I remember right, the ones who reforge the Sword for Link don't like Humans nor like Hylians, more like dwarfs or even gnomes.
    Another indicator for the long time between TP and LttP is that the current Sages seem to be more like Human than the ones before (at least to me).

    (I wrote my comment a while after reading your article and just stated things like I remember them out of my mind, without refreshing with any sources or anything)

  • nxg

    (Addition to my earlier comment)
    Ganon wanted the Master Sword to go to the Sacred Realm, the Master Sword being the Key to the Sacred Realm here (if I remember right).
    In this timeline Ganon initially gains his Power out of the Sacred Realm, explaining why the Sword is the Key to his Powers.

    Just a little thought.

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  • TheMaverickk

    Honestly I'm placing bets that in Skyward Sword you travel through Hyrule and meet/awaken sages. The game will likely require you to find these sages who then use their power to transform the Skyward Sword into the legendary Master Sword.

    If Miyamoto/Aonuma do this then it will make what they've said in the past in regards to the mythos around the Master Sword more accurate.

    One thing we can also count on in this game is there shouldn't be the "collect 3 items" formula to get the Master Sword. Simply because in this game it isn't sealed off in a Temple or an ancient land. Meaning they can get players straight into the meat of the quest.

  • X x7

    Just so you know, in OoT, it's a purple handle, not a blue one.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/beez1717 beez1717

    I would like to just point out that nobody has ever mentioned that perhaps we are learning in this game that this master sword was the original copy and that there are other copies, or perhaps they remade the sword at other times…. Maybe that's why link didn't show up in the story at the beginning of wind waker. if at points in confusion in the minish's story right?

    • X x7

      link didnt show up in the story in the beginning of WW because there was no link. He was sent back in time in OoT remember?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

    Everybody just go to zeldatimeline.com

    It makes sense (kinda)

    • X x7

      not really because he or she thinks that the FS saga is in the child timeline, which most people believe is in the front of the timeline.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/lifesavers2 lifesavers2

        Yeah but if you read this it all makes sense. He did his homework. There is an interview with him on thehylia.com

  • lolknight

    Extremly well done article, The Wolfess! However, there is only an incongruence in the timeline that is by no means your fault (rather, I am just pointing something logical out). If OoT's master sword was used by adult Link and it was so large, then how could it possibly shrink in the Wind Waker to coinviniently suit WW's Link 's small size? I know it ws made like this by the designers to fit Link as a kid, but it logically dos not make any sense (again, this is no-one's fault. I just felt like pointing it out)

  • peter

    majora's mask is missing on that timeline diagram. it should come immediately off ocarina of time on a separate timeline or parrellel universe even.

  • peter

    majora's mask is missing on that timeline diagram. it should come immediately off ocarina of time on a separate timeline of its own.

    • Cipher

      I thought that too at first but then I realized that the diagram is only supposed to show the games featuring the Mastersword so it makes sense that MM isn't on it.

  • Wim

    Great article.

    The master sword appears in OoT/OoA, but at the most random places. So you could dismiss it, however it's apearance in the original TLoZ for NES stands. If you look at the opening credits. You'll find that the third sword is the master sword. It's kept by an old men beneath a gravestone. A whole lot fits better if you don't resort to something like a split time line theory. Think it out.

  • mrnjlw1090

    What about the Chamber of Secrets? After Link pulls the Master Sword from the Temple in Ocarina of Time, he is lifted up into the SKY by an unknown force. Could the Chamber of Secrets be a small part of Skyloft; preserved for eternity in the sacred realm?

  • wildcat

    Great!

  • Wee!

    BOBBAGUHNOOSH!

  • Terrey

    I will say this. Most of your information is correct, and fits with what I consider to be the only sensible timeline, as the Master Sword and the Triforce are the only way to track the history of Hyrule… But you have gotten something VERY important completely wrong.

    The Master Sword does not repel evil. The Master Sword, according to A Link to the Past's Japanese manuals (and in English, but very poorly translated), was imbued BY THE SAGES(LttP) with a resistance to all magic. Hylians are the race that was gifted with magic, and the race was lost between LttP and the events of LoZ. Minish cap states that the Light Force (Note that Light Force was mistranslated in the first three English Zelda Manuals to "Triforce"). Was brought down from the sky along with a sword.

    Zelda II's manual states that the Gods' method of protecting the world from evil corrupting the Triforce, was to scatter the Triforce of courage and select a "Judge of Courage" to reclaim any one part of the Triforce that fell into the wrong hands.

    LttP's manual states that the Sages Imbued a Sword. Note that the Japanese manual does not use the verb to craft a sword. The word is implyies that either the sword was manmade, or that a prior sword was imbued with this power.

    Now, let's look at the Four Sword: It fires beams. It has the ability to traverse time. It has the ability to break magical barriers, and it repels corrupt magical power. The only difference, is that it breaks the user into four. Also note that in the Original A Link to the Past title screen, the Master Sword had an eye in it.

    Many argue that the Master Sword cannot be the Picori Sword, because it was broken, but it was reforged.

    My argument is that the Skyward Sword is the Picori Sword is the Four Sword is the Master Sword.

    That makes the timeline: SS->MC->FS->FS:A->OoT->MM->TP->LTTP->LA->LoZ->Z2

    It's the simplest and most elegant solution… Unfortunately, Four Swords may be a little wrong because of inclusion of Ganon. Ganon cannot predate OoT, but we know that these discrepancies exist because Aonuma inadvertently confirms this timeline.

    The problem is, that there were mistakes made in development, mostly having to do with Ganon, and almost all to do with Third Party developers, and Miyamoto induced freakouts.

  • Light

    Reply to ShadowHero31
    Hey, but what if the back story to MC does happen in skyward sword, and the blade is enshrined in the chest after A Link To The Past? it would explain the condition of the picori blade and how a normal Hylian put it in a chest in the first place! It would also explain the picori blade is master sword theory.
    And if you see the artwork of the minish holding the clover in tthe MC credits,
    his face is the same colour as the oocas ( This is not the most sound theory).

  • http://mamotivationalquotes.info/forum/feed.php Ernestina Pelley

    Incredible! I have already been looking the search engines all day with this and i finally found it here!

  • Banooru

    Rauru's connection with Kaepora Gaebora would make total sense if the ancient sages came from Skyloft.

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  • http://dakurokuro.blogspot.com/ dakuro

    yeah seems to be correct, now we have must wait for the skyward sword and finish it to see how details are gonna chance the way the story have.

    • BEN

      You Shouldn't Have Done That, dakuro… You know what you did… And now I'm going to haunt you for it. >8B